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Topic : "Painter 9 questions / problems ><" |
Chocomoocow
junior member
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:40 pm |
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To start. I'd just like to say i'm at the point of frustration where i'm tempted to bash my head against a wall until a lightning bolt of all worldly knowledge strikes me. So here we go,
1) Cannot paint light colors on top of a darker color
I have a medium dark red base color for my hair however i make a new layer so that i can paint my highlights on it except the color doesn't show. It'll either be invisible or it'll saturate the base color. (all the while i am working in digiWatercolor + pointed simple water).
Except. If i'm working on the original canvas layer, then it works but then that brings into question my next point.
2) Precision
After reading many many tutorials but getting nowhere, one key point a good lot of them had in common was painting the Entire picture on the starting canvas layer. I'm not sure if this happens to you guys as well but personally i cant paint when i have such strict constrictions as to you MUST be within that area or else you'll go onto the background / character. Plus with those restrictions, i cant exactly put on my base color with ease either. Because that requires me to go over the same area quite a few times (pointed simple water, digiWater). I could use the opacity but that brings up my next point.
3) Opacity brushing.
I use pointed simple water on digiWater and i need to establish the base color of the skin. But i cant. At a low opacity (10%) if i go over the same area over and over, i'll achieve the color i want, and the edges will be smooth. But if i have the restrictions as listed above, i dont have the space to do that. So a solution to it could be to turn up the opacity but then the edges become hard and pixely and the color is a lot darker then before. And this, kinda relates to my Next point.
4) Blending / erasing
I really have no idea why but sometimes the soft round blender (or any blender in that case) and the wet eraser (any eraser in this case too) just plain dont work. i know i'm on the right layer but it just wont do anything. i'll go over it and seriously nothing happens.
Ok...i THINK thats it for now. But yeah, if anybody has a solution or answer to these problems. PLEASE list them.
many thanks =D
ps: I forgot to mention that when the white doesn't show up. if i set the layer to normal, then i see the color. but along with that comes a big ugly white pixely border thing on the edges >_< |
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Jin
member
Member #
Joined: 09 Jun 2001
Posts: 479
Location: CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:51 pm |
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| Chocomoocow wrote: |
To start. I'd just like to say i'm at the point of frustration where i'm tempted to bash my head against a wall until a lightning bolt of all worldly knowledge strikes me.
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From my own experience, I have to say that probably won't help much. 
| Quote: |
So here we go,
1) Cannot paint light colors on top of a darker color
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You could if you were using one of the many brush variants that allow you to paint light colors above darker colors..
| Quote: |
I have a medium dark red base color for my hair however i make a new layer so that i can paint my highlights on it except the color doesn't show. It'll either be invisible or it'll saturate the base color. (all the while i am working in digiWatercolor + pointed simple water).
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Digital Watercolor and Watercolor variants are designed to mimic traditional watercolor which is usually transparent. Traditional watercolorists generally work from light to dark using the white watercolor paper for white.
Painter's Digital Watercolor and Watercolor paint also appear transparent as the Layer is automatically set to Composite Method Gel , so when you paint a color above another color, the colors are combined and the underlying color is darkened.
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Except. If i'm working on the original canvas layer, then it works but then that brings into question my next point.
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Yep, it'll work on the Canvas since the Canvas is usually white. Or, it'll work if the particular DWC brush variant can cover other color already on the Canvas. It won't work the same if the Canvas is colored, especially if the Canvas color is darker than the color used to paint.
| Quote: |
2) Precision
After reading many many tutorials but getting nowhere, one key point a good lot of them had in common was painting the Entire picture on the starting canvas layer. I'm not sure if this happens to you guys as well but personally i cant paint when i have such strict constrictions as to you MUST be within that area or else you'll go onto the background / character. Plus with those restrictions, i cant exactly put on my base color with ease either. Because that requires me to go over the same area quite a few times (pointed simple water, digiWater). I could use the opacity but that brings up my next point.
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Lift your "background character", assuming it's a black and white sketch or inking, to a Layer and change the Composite Method to Gel to make the white background transparent. Then paint on other Layers dragged below the line work Layer, or paint on the Canvas when it works best for you.
Is there some absolute and unbreakable rule that you have to paint everything with the DWC variants? If not, that could give you a lot more options and a lot more freedom.
| Quote: |
3) Opacity brushing.
I use pointed simple water on digiWater and i need to establish the base color of the skin. But i cant. At a low opacity (10%) if i go over the same area over and over, i'll achieve the color i want, and the edges will be smooth. But if i have the restrictions as listed above, i dont have the space to do that. So a solution to it could be to turn up the opacity but then the edges become hard and pixely and the color is a lot darker then before. And this, kinda relates to my Next point.
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What do you mean, "don't have the space to do that"?
| Quote: |
4) Blending / erasing
I really have no idea why but sometimes the soft round blender (or any blender in that case) and the wet eraser (any eraser in this case too) just plain dont work. i know i'm on the right layer but it just wont do anything. i'll go over it and seriously nothing happens.
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Check to see if the Layer is Locked. If it is, Unlock it.
If you're attempting to paint on transparent areas of the Layer and nothing happens, check to see if the Preserve Transparency box is checked. If it is, uncheck it.
If neither of the above, wou'll have to give us a very specific scenario that we can duplicate to see if we can find out what's happening (exact names of brush variants, any brush control adjustments you've made, Layer Composite Method, description of what's below the Layer, etc.)
| Quote: |
Ok...i THINK thats it for now. But yeah, if anybody has a solution or answer to these problems. PLEASE list them.
many thanks =D
ps: I forgot to mention that when the white doesn't show up. if i set the layer to normal, then i see the color. but along with that comes a big ugly white pixely border thing on the edges >_< |
Yep, that's one of the reasons (white edges) why the Layer is automatically set to Gel Composite Method the minute we begin to paint on it with a DWC variant. That in addition to keeping the DWC paint transparent.
It might be a good idea for you to read:
John Derry's Visual Guide to Digital Water Color PDF
Jinny Brown
Corel Painter Instructor, TutorAlley Forums
Corel Painter Focused Sites:
http://www.pixelalley.com
http://www.tutoralley.com
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Chocomoocow
junior member
Member #
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:44 pm |
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Thanks Soooo much for replying Jin. it answered most of my questions but i have some further questions on how to respond to your answers ><
| Quote: |
| You could if you were using one of the many brush variants that allow you to paint light colors above darker colors.. |
I'm a DWC person so how would i do that. or does that not apply.
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| Yep, it'll work on the Canvas since the Canvas is usually white. Or, it'll work if the particular DWC brush variant can cover other color already on the Canvas. It won't work the same if the Canvas is colored, especially if the Canvas color is darker than the color used to paint. |
How would i change my brush so that it can cover another color. And if the canvas is usually white, that doesn't really explain how you could paint it a dark navy blue but then also paint a skin color on top of it. And if thats the case, would it be possible to mimic the canvas layer effect on other layers?
| Quote: |
| What do you mean, "don't have the space to do that"? |
Like, i need to go over the same area repeatedly and if i'm doing the base color for the tip of a strand of hair, its very pointed and i'll have reallly skinny strands too (i'm more of a anime/manga artist)
Small new question regarding blending
just wondering how the soft round blender in DWC works more in depth. It seems sometimes when i use it it'll take the color from the cursor point and kinda move it over? other times if i just scribble in nothing ness it'll start a light pale color go heavy and dark and then light again. other times when i try to use it over color, it just comes out a pale color and makes the are its touching pale and lightens it.
EDIT: If the highlights are supposed to be left white. How do i add the highlights after making the base color for that area. I'd have to erase the desired highlight area wouldn't I?
EDIT 2: an explanation of what i mean about the opacity brush side thing.
see how at 100% the color is different and the edges are very hard and pixely? |
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Jin
member
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Joined: 09 Jun 2001
Posts: 479
Location: CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:28 am |
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Duplicate post deleted.
Last edited by Jin on Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jin
member
Member #
Joined: 09 Jun 2001
Posts: 479
Location: CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:29 am |
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| Chocomoocow wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You could if you were using one of the many brush variants that allow you to paint light colors above darker colors.. |
I'm a DWC person so how would i do that. or does that not apply.
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If you're a dyed in the wool DWC person, you're going to have to deal with the way DWC works and find workarounds.
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| Quote: |
| Yep, it'll work on the Canvas since the Canvas is usually white. Or, it'll work if the particular DWC brush variant can cover other color already on the Canvas. It won't work the same if the Canvas is colored, especially if the Canvas color is darker than the color used to paint. |
How would i change my brush so that it can cover another color.
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There's not much point in adjusting a DWC variant so when you paint on a Layer it'll cover color on the Canvas or underlying Layers because then you'll have a different kind of brush variant anyway. It will no longer be a DWC brush variant. Be easy on yourself and don't make it harder than it has to be.
Use a non-DWC variant, one that does cover whatever's underneath (degree of coverage depending on brush Opacity and Layer Opacity, of course). For instance, try the Airbrushes' Digital Airbrush variant or Soft Airbrush 20 (adjust size as needed) and paint on a Layer above the imagery you want to highlight so you can adjust Layer Opacity and work without doing damage to the underlying work..
Several other options that come to mind for making highlights:
� Work from light to dark instead of dark to light the way your're working now, adding highlights after darker color has already been painted.
� Paint on a Layer, then create a Layer Mask. Highlight the Layer Mask icon, choose black to hide color where you want highlights and white to correct mistakes. I like the Airbrushes' Digital Airbrush variant for editing Layer Masks and I adjust brush Size as needed and set Opacity very low so I have a lot of control. If the brush Size is too small, it seems the brushstroke edges aren't so soft which would be important when creating highlights (no sharp edges). If you don't like the result at all, either fill the Mask with white and start over, or dump the Layer Mask and create a new one, then try again.
� Pick the color from the imagery you're going to highlight and use the Color Info palette with HSV sliders displayed (see palette menu for this option) and adjust the Value slider to get the highlight color you want. Use the Lasso tool to draw the shape of your highlight leaving some room around it for feathering. Use Select > Feather and type the number of pixels you want feathered. Fill the selection with color and if the Feather number was high enough, you should see very soft edges around your highlight, fading into the underlying color. You can then change the Layer Composite Method to Overlay and adjust the Layer Opacity as needed.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| What do you mean, "don't have the space to do that"? |
Like, i need to go over the same area repeatedly and if i'm doing the base color for the tip of a strand of hair, its very pointed and i'll have reallly skinny strands too (i'm more of a anime/manga artist)
Small new question regarding blending
just wondering how the soft round blender in DWC works more in depth. It seems sometimes when i use it it'll take the color from the cursor point and kinda move it over? other times if i just scribble in nothing ness it'll start a light pale color go heavy and dark and then light again. other times when i try to use it over color, it just comes out a pale color and makes the are its touching pale and lightens it.
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Any brush variant for which the Brush Controls' Well palette's Resaturation slider is set low and the Bleed slider is set higher than the Resat slider, will to one degree or another blend colors. The higher the Bleed slider and the lower the Resat slider, the more blending. Resat controls how much color is painted in the brushstroke. Bleed controls how much existing color is picked up and painted in the brushstroke along with the currently selected color. If you paint over the Canvas onto other color, some of the white Canvas color will be carried into the other color along with the currently selected color you're using to paint.
Much of this you're only going to understand by working with Painter IX brush variants and seeing for yourself what happens. That's why I frenquently recommend opening a new white Canvas and doing a lot of experimenting until things begin to be clearer.
| Quote: |
EDIT: If the highlights are supposed to be left white. How do i add the highlights after making the base color for that area. I'd have to erase the desired highlight area wouldn't I?
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Nothing's "supposed to be" anything. This is just how a lot of traditional watercolorists work, from light to dark, painting lightest colors first, leaving areas unpainted where they want white, and gradually painting darker and darker colors one above the other until the desired effect is achieved.
For a few options, see my suggestions above. Yes, erasing could be another answer but I think maybe not the best one since it's not adjustable after the fact.
| Quote: |
EDIT 2: an explanation of what i mean about the opacity brush side thing.
see how at 100% the color is different and the edges are very hard and pixely? |
Nope, I don't see it looking at your demo here, but when I did a screen print pasted it into Painter IX and zoomed in, I could see it.
Try using the DWC's Soft Diffused Brush, with the Diffusion slider set to 0 (zero), then choose a darker version of your color so it'll match what you want. I think you'll see that the edges are no longer hard and pixelated but instead are soft and feather into the underlying color.
Again, you'll need to experiment with all of these suggestions and many more things until you begin to get a handle on working in Painter IX.
Set aside some good chunks of time to do only that and it'll pay off sooner than you might think.
Jinny Brown
Corel Painter Instructor, TutorAlley Forums
Corel Painter Focused Sites:
http://www.pixelalley.com
http://www.tutoralley.com
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Chocomoocow
junior member
Member #
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:00 pm |
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wow. that helps a lot.
i encountered the nothing problem again today.
like, i went to test out mask thing, which didn't work out (hmmm) and after it i wasn't able to do anything. I couldn't erase / paint / airbrush / pen. and i couldn't figure out why, so i made a new document.
another thing was earlier i made a base color with the airbrush tool (much easier) and then proceed to make a new layer so i can make the highlights. i selected layer transparency from the base color layer so i dont paint outside but no color comes out. not DWC / airbrush or anything really.
thanks a lot jin =D
EDIT: *important* I was practicing coloring again just a bit ago, but something weird came up and i just couldn't erase it. i was on the right layer, using the WET brush for the DWC and it didn't work. i tried painting a new line, and it still didn't work. i seriously dont get what the problem can be |
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Jin
member
Member #
Joined: 09 Jun 2001
Posts: 479
Location: CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:59 am |
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| Chocomoocow wrote: |
wow. that helps a lot.
i encountered the nothing problem again today.
like, i went to test out mask thing, which didn't work out (hmmm) and after it i wasn't able to do anything. I couldn't erase / paint / airbrush / pen. and i couldn't figure out why, so i made a new document.
another thing was earlier i made a base color with the airbrush tool (much easier) and then proceed to make a new layer so i can make the highlights. i selected layer transparency from the base color layer so i dont paint outside but no color comes out. not DWC / airbrush or anything really.
thanks a lot jin =D
EDIT: *important* I was practicing coloring again just a bit ago, but something weird came up and i just couldn't erase it. i was on the right layer, using the WET brush for the DWC and it didn't work. i tried painting a new line, and it still didn't work. i seriously dont get what the problem can be |
Hi,
I'll respond to the parts of your message I can understand well enough (hopefully, I understand).
To paint on a Layer Mask, you need to be sure the Layer Mask icon (in the Layers palette, to the right of the Layer icon) is highlighted. That means it should have a black outline around it.
To paint on the Layer again, you need to highlight the Layer icon and before trying to paint, make sure it has a black outline around it.
I tried the following and it didn't work the first time (I ran into some nothing-would-appear-when-I-painted problems) so I closed Painter IX.5, relaunched, and tried again and this time it worked:
NOTE: If you want to use the Select Layer Transparency command and the Layer contains wet Digital Watercolor brushstrokes, you won't get a selection of those Digital Watercolor brushstrokes until the Digital Watercolor paint is dried.
To avoid drying the paint on your Digital Watercolor-painted Layer:
1. Highlight the Layer.
2. Right-click the Layer and choose Duplicate from the contextual menu (or use whatever command works on Mac's to open the contextual menu).
3. With the duplicate Layer highlighted, choose Dry Digital Watercolor from the Layers palette menu.
4. Right-click the duplicate Layer and choose Select Layer Transparency from the contextual menu.
5. In the Select menu, choose Save Selection. This saves the selection as an Alpha Channel that's now listed in the Channels palette. (I suggest saving your selection so you won't lose it during the following steps.)
6. With the duplicate Layer still highlighted, use Select > All, then Edit > Clear. Now the duplicate Layer is transparent and you can work on it however you want.
7. With the duplicate Layer still highlighted, go to the bottom of the Channels palette, click the Load Channel as Selection icon (left icon) and choose the Alpha Channel name from the Load from: drop down list, then click the OK button.
8. Now your saved selection is active on the transparent duplicate Layer and you can proceed to paint.
I won't have time to continue answering questions in so much detail as, in addition to taking care of a pile of personal business things and making rounds of the Painter community daily to answer other artist's questions, I'm getting ready to teach a Painter IX.5 class soon and have a lot of work to do.
Hopefully, what I've been able to answer so far will get you off to a fairly good start and you can learn more just by experimenting and reading either the User Guide or Help Topics.
When you still have questions, try to stick to one or two at a time so it'll be less time consuming for people to answer them.
Also, you'll find more Painter IX.5 help in other forums as this one is not so focused on Corel Painter as others.
Here are a couple of good ones:
CGTalk's Corel Painter Forum
Conceptart.org's Painter Forum
The Corel Painter IX newsgroup is another good source of answers:
Add Server: cnews.corel.com
Subscribe to: c.PainterIX
Good luck!
Jinny Brown
Corel Painter Instructor, TutorAlley Forums
Corel Painter Focused Sites:
http://www.pixelalley.com
http://www.tutoralley.com
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Chocomoocow
junior member
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:53 am |
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yep. thanks a lot jin. took a while before i got the instructions for the alpha channel down.
tiny thing. Is the layer transparency and the alpha channel, kinda the same thing then? if they both allow you to paint only within the selected area?
thanks for all the help jin. I'm goin to japan myself in a week so hopefully you'll be around when i get back ^^
edit: woops. one last thing. for the DWC, theres no way to make it not pick up lower color right? So i'm just going to have to make the colors i pick very light so that they get changed darker to the color i want? |
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