[Light]

This post is deprecated.

[Wren]

I think i would be more intrigued by your ideas if i could see how it has affected your own art. As it is, i found your two essays to be quite lengthy and had trouble maintianing my interest. That's not to say i think you are wrong or anything like that, just that the reading was a bit tedious (and this is from somone who used to read technical journals and science magazines in the 5th and 6th grade).

As for the ideas themselves, i think they are fairly sound. One of the best art instructors i ever had taught the same pricipals of observation and visualzation which you mention. However, he stressed the observation of the tangible as a means to increase your ability to visualize instead of the other way around as you have presented in your essays. But still the ideas have merit and would make for a much more intriguing read if you could provide visual examples of it's successful use.

And on a side note, i read your profile. It says you will never post to these forums again yet here i am responding to a post you made today. Did you change your mind or am i missing something?
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SASart Studios

[Light]

Wren,

Well, you can certainly find my past paintings if you search around for them. Virtually all of them were made before I learned the techniques though.

I understand that people might want to see some of my new work so they could be inspired. However, I don't think that is a requirement for understanding the value of my ideas.

Also, I don't think it is very useful. Everyone learns at different rates depending on our previous bad habbits, the amount we practice, how we work, etc. As I explained previously, if Joe reads my technique, and becomes a master overnight (which is possible) then it doesn't mean that Jane will do the same. If Jane thinks Joe is not good, and he uses my techniques then it doesn't mean that Jane can't do good works.

The day that I write a book then I'll be more likely to make a strong case of my methods. But, these are free so basically I figure people can take it or leave it.

If you want a validation of the worth of visualization then feel free to look at Boris, Brom, and Frazetta's works.

Brom has been said things to the nature that:

He has a near photographic memory, and visualizes the entire scene before starting. But, he doesn't just use memory paintings -- he invents creatively. Also, he does invite reactionary process to see where things can go..(probably because imo itd be too easy if he didnt!!). He does occasionaly use photographs for reference if the project calls for it.

Boris has been said to "lie down, and just let his mind drift and let the images come". You will notice that Boris probably isn't of the same caliber visualizer as Brom because he has to use photographs but its still an important part of his work. He's also been said to "have poor vision and sometimes he just sees something and it remind him of other things".

Frazetta was also a strong visualizer.

... The list goes on, and on, and on. I think I've found references to even "academic" painters like Bougera using visualization.

Actually, imo, this is probably some of the best advice on art to be PUT DOWN clearly and precisely in maybe 50 years because I've never seen anyone put it down so plainly as I have as something to work on consciously. I might even so far to say as this is in many cases this skill at visualization is what "talent is". Who knows could these articles be the future "loomis" or must reads for art? Of course, maybe not as everyone is different.

You have to look to the best, and these are some of the best fantasy artist working today, and I've enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that visualization is a strong component of their work.

I'm still learning what I'm writing about too. I could have just kept all these goodies to myself but I knew it would help some other people. I, also, knew that the people who didn't really deserve it probably wouldn't even bother to read it anyway. But, yes, I could wait until I'm a master but by then it may become so natural to me that I wouldn't even care.

I,also, made some of the discussions long because I wanted to try to get people to think about things that they thought they knew in new ways. It is like I have to push them, and myself a bit further.

Also, like my last article there are tons and tons of things that are meant to be put into practice. So, there is a lot of value that you can skip over if you aren't careful. You have to do the exercises to understand what I'm talking about. (For example each descriptive exercise should be written down on 2-3 pages of paper.) This is more about "what you should do" then about me showing stuff. I mean you can gain a lot of value by reading what I write a 2-3x instead of just 1x.

Regarding my never posting here again: its a general sentiment

[jr]

i'm curious, what does your art look like.
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[bearsclover]

jr: here's some examples of Light's work:

http://light1.home.mindspring.com/copies
http://light1.home.mindspring.com/originals
http://light1.home.mindspring.com/sketches

I, too, think that if someone is going to write an article of that length, they should include a liberal amount of illustrations.

I won't comment on the article in question, because it seemed just too bland and tedious to read, especially considering that there were no illustrations. I've never seen a "how to" art book or art article without illustrations. It just makes no sense to not have them.

I notice that Light mentions that the examples of his work are "before he learned these techniques." Well, why are there no examples of his work after he learned these techniques? If these techniques are so wonderful and sound (and I have no idea whether they are or not) then certainly some illustrations showing how effective they can be would be very compelling evidence indeed!

But apparently we are not to be shown any examples of these techniques in practice. Just a long, long, long .doc file.

(Oh, wait. Here's a sketch that was uploaded (or at least updated) recently: http://light1.home.mindspring.com/sketches/sketchesb.jpg )

I am curious--why is Light reluctant to show more recent works? We see almost none of them. Why?
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Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

[Light]

Sour grapes. ?

[bearsclover]

Light, I don't really think you can control who posts on your threads. I have just as much right to post here as anyone else. And I certainly do not consider myself a "troll," unless you consider anyone who challenges you or disagrees with you to be a "troll." If that's the case, I think there are a whole lot of people who are "trolls." (And that comment on your profile about why you "won't post here anymore." What was that all about? Were you run off by all these so-called "trolls"? And if so, why are you back now?)

Others on this thread have asked the same question about the lack of your art in this article. They feel it's important too. They wouldn't have asked if they didn't think it was important.

I don't think the reasons you gave for not showing your artwork really suffice. I can't think of one other artist or student who can talk so much about how to do art, while all the time not showing any evidence that they do any of the kind of art that they are so fond of talking about. It's kinda like, all talk, talk, talk, and no evidence of any action.

Edited to ask another thing:

[Lunatique]

Hey, let's get Wayne Johnson in here and we'll have a party.

[Drunken Monkey]

Blah blah blah blah....
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Light]

Sour grapes. ?

[ceenda]

[Loki]

Light, maybe you shouldn't waste your time by writing defensive posts here, maybe you should massively improve your painting skills first.
And maybe THEN, write some essays.
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http://baustaedter.com/

[merlyns]

first the article is to long.

second, I find it boring

third, You should write from experience, from what I can tell you dont have that experience to educate me. what I'm trying to say is: Work on your art, learn from it, and then pass it on. but you just lack skills to pass knowledge on to another person.

if I sound harsh, sorry. But I think this way about it, I just dont find it convincing.

-david
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[Mikko K]

Light, just a thought I got while reading your article. Maybe you could try to separate it to pages/chapters or something if you want better readability.

It was odd that you're serious about art but don't work on it much. Why don't you draw or paint instead of writing articles?

[Drew]

[bearsclover]

[Light]

Sour grapes. ?

[fukifino]

Just once I'd like to see a post by Light that DOESN'T turn into a Light vs. Bears flamewar. :/

Just ignore him if you think he's a shmuck.

[bearsclover]

[bearsclover]

Unfortunately for you, Light, some of us have quoted some of your statements, before you edited them out.

This is bizarre. Yeesh. Major meltdown. Or are you just pulling our legs again?
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Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

[Infidelegation]

Too bad: Bearsclover can draw and Light does not. And no, that virtual amount of knowledge doesn't count no matter how much someone can fool himself with it!

Bearsclover, your site speaks for your talent! Bear with the madness knowing you're not alone

[Jin]

All I can see in these threads is a whole lot of immaturity on the part of two main contenders.

I'll second someone else's comment:

Just ignore both of them if you think they're schmucks.

Off to do some heavy duty ignoring.

[Godwin]

lol, bearsclover's language is really funny

and... is there such a word as deprecated?

EDIT:
checked dictionary.com, so there is

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=deprecated
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Derelict Studios|Godwin's Space