[dr . bang]

I've been waiting for this day since the day you left. Thank you God for bringing him back.

I could not find a word that could describe your painting.

[duhroach]

Hey, I'm probally dead wrong, and innacurate.. but that looks like the americas on the front of that globe. And I'm taking from your comments that the time of this painting would be before columbus went to the americas. (Ie, Pleading his case to his skeptics, before he set sail)
Then again, I could totally be wrong in my time frames.

~Main
==
Colt "MainRoach" McAnlis
www.sinewave.net

[Jason Manley]

my question...How long did that take you?


My comments....nice layout. It is refreshing to see traditional composition skills in digital art. Your stuff is a rarity that way.

It is also good to see someone of your talent on this forum helping all the different levels of artists that come here.

Very cool indeed.

Getting life in those figures is difficult isnt it?


Jason Manley

I agree about the globe comment. That was a very intelligent thing to notice. When was the first globe made anyway? maybe maps would be a better solution as a visual symbol. I dunno. I just remember the idea that they all thought the world was flat at the time.

Nice use of multiple light sources as well

[AliasMoze]

Globe Schmobe. That image rocks. The angle of Columbus's right hand looks a little weird, but that's just splitting hairs. Awesome work, as usual, Spooge. This is one of my new favorites of yours.

[FatPenguin]

hey hey, no reason to be historically accurate when columbus is involved. In fact it seems to be the american way to be offensively innacurate

This is most likely my favorite of the spooge sketches i've seen on this forum.

one thing which seems a little odd: the candles would imply night time, and yet there is a white light shining down on the globe?

anyway, great pic, post more etc etc.

[Flexible Elf]

Welcome back Spooge.. we missed the heck out of ya. I'll have to start painting again now

-Flexible Elf

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http://www.geocities.com/flexible_elf/Main.html

[Gambit]

Incredible, Spooge. The colors on this one are so rich. Great to have you back!

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Gamingvault.com

[spooge demon]

Glad to be back. Living out of a suitcase and eating out every night gets old after a month.

There is no reference used and it is a total fabrication. Historical errors abound. On purpose! I doubt Columbus hit up a bunch of Evil Church Dudes to get funding. I believe it was Isabella who thought the price was small enough to throw a few ships at the idea. Of course the globe showing a roughly correct scale and shape of North America is totally wrong. Columbus thought he had landed in India, hehe. Oh, and educated people knew that the earth was round since the Greeks figgered out the circumference of the Earth pretty accurately, if memory serves.

It took about 2.5 hours. and was started at 1200, bumped to 3k to finish.

Oh, the Plaque. You know, those little paragraphs next to a painting that tell you a little bit about it? There were two interpretations of this scene that chase did, and the second was to fulfill some dumb academic idea imposed on him by his teachers. I must go back and see these images, to see what I did wrong. I barely remember them.

Nori, yes, I do change things if needed. Those global correction tools can hide a host of Sins, but sometimes you just change your mind. It is one of the main things that attracted me to digital in the first place. In painting, if your block in is wrong, your screwed. And exploring different possibilities is a time consuming and painful process. There is a neat tutorial on Adobes site about how to use curves.

Weeks, I am not sure what you are asking. Textures? Like flat textures for 3-d stuff? I don�t think it is productive to think of form and texture as different things. I have seen a lot of 3-d artists get stuck in thinking this way when they try to get their renders to the next level. As many have said, paint the forms using good values and you will be surprised how little texture is needed.

Void, yes all you say is true, and a lot more. The chief baddies� head came together a little too easily so then what do you do? I have to consider all the other stuff and draw it out. Bah, not enough time. I have gotten into trouble before with sketches being to �finished� looking. But you are absolutely correct in pointing it out if it bothers your eye. I see I need to get better at indicating hands at the same levels as faces. Since my eye did not catch it, I need to see what passes and what does not with various people. That�s one of the cool things about this forum.

It has been an old debate about artists at various �levels� and whether it is bad form for a �lesser� artist to critique a �better� artist. Aside from the difficulty of really quantifying how �good� an artist is, consider the idea that even if you are a highly skilled artist, your audience is very wide, and if you are a commercial artist, you had better pay attention to how your work strikes people. My Dad is my best critic, he is honest and harsh and knows nothing at all about art.

I don�t know if I relayed this experience, but at an art center class a teacher asked people to collectively rank the final project from best to worst and arrange them on the crit rail in that order. Thus hell was released. The tears! It really brings to mind the saying that 95% of the people are above average.

My suggestion to anyone who only likes adulation, simply state that in your post If a �newbie� criticizes a �master,� attach that value to what they say and move on. If what is said is stupid or naive, well, it�s not worth the effort

[Weeks]

No, Spooge,

Excuse my english...(:-)
But I wanted to ask you about the way YOU do to obtain, to draw, stone or rock or mountains in your digital paintings..
I've seen your creations, and you draw beautiful paysages : walls, tree, stone on the road...
How is it possible to get that render whithout 3d render ?

Is it special brush, or little details or the resolutions, what else ? if it is not a secret... :-)

Thank you...

Weeks

[silber]

hi spooge
my freaky brother noticed that your perspective is a bit wrong
so he tryed to rearange the scene in max

the blackline in the background is the eye-level (hope that was your eye-level too)

1.columbos is too big (if he is as big as the persons who are sitting)

2.the person in the very front is too small
(if he is as big as the other persons)

3.the table hasn't an angle of 90 degree

4.the person (standing?) in the very background is too big


so yeah I said my brother is freaky but
I guess he is right
well the mistakes you made could
be ''artistic freedom''(proper english?)
but I think they are worth
mention them
to show that even great masters
make some mistakes...


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-----silBer--
http://silber.atariflys.de

[This message has been edited by silber (edited October 05, 2000).]

[spooge demon]

If it's wrong, it is wrong, but your eye should be what tells you it is wrong. Use the 3-d or construction to diagnose, but don't follow it blindly. I agree there is some funky stuff going on, but I find that the specific things you point out are not really what it wrong with it. There are a lot of other variables involved.

Take Columbus' height. Look at your eye level; it is about at 4 feet if you go by the figure standing in the BG. It hits that standing figure at the nipple. It strikes Columbus at the nipple as well. But who is to say that Columbus is 6 foot and the guy in the back is too? There are a few other inconsistencies as well.

UNDERSTAND THAT I AM NOT ARGUING WITH YOU THAT THIS IMAGE HAS NO FAULTS!!!

IT HAS COUNTLESS FAULTS!!

I think the 3-d analysis is imprecise in this case. My GENERAL point is that people think, "oh, it's 3-d, it must be right..." I have had this discussion a lot with people that I work with.

If it bothers your eye, it is wrong. Clearly it looks wrong enough to prompt you to analyze it this way.

But that is the interesting point- I broke the rules, just like someone drawing Superman making him 8 feet tall breaks the rules. But sometimes it looks wrong (what I did) and sometime it looks good(8 foot Superman). Your eye and your sensibility, not a 3-d program will tell you this.

Don�t get me wrong, I use 3-d a lot in analyzing things, but it�s greatest use is in training the eye. Don�t use it as the reason something is wrong. Saying something bothers you gets my ears a lot more perked up than measuring an ear or something.

So now you ask,� well, if the 3-d analysis is wrong, what is throwing it out in my eye?�

Good question...

I don�t know. An image like this is a Chinese puzzle. Really interactive. I would have to start over and really get into it. It feels like there are a few wrong assumptions and architectural design and a lot of smaller inaccuracies that multiply on each other.

[Freddio]

Spooge your picture looks great...


"to show that even great masters
make some mistakes..."


Im sure if you slavishly throught out your perspective and precisly recreate the scene

you could...

but it is clear that this picture is quite I think your main ideas weren't concered about acurately rendering this scene but to create an awesome atmosphere while keeping good perspective. I mean I must admit I didnt notice any flaws in the persective when I first looked and even on a second look it is still quite hard to pick out the flaws. But Columbus is a big charicter because he is the focus of the painting. It draws your eye to him.

I dont know you may have actually done this sub contously.

But anyway.

I didnt like the tone of some of those guys who were criting you. Its fine for newbies and so ojn to crit more matured artists but to try and rub it in their face is anopther thing....

[silber]

hi spooge

think you should read my first post
once again
I said all your little mistakes could
be ''artistic freedom''I don't know
if there is such a word in english
but it means exactly what you said about
8feet superman

and about the 3d subject:
-my brother saw your pic and noticed immediately that something is wrong but
couldn't tell exactly what
so he made up this 3dscene to be sure

I think when somebody posts a pic in here
he wants some feedback or criticism/or help

I don't think my post was a contsructive criticism but I still think it was worth
posting it
it was meant as a friendly input
not as a disrespect


------------------
-----silBer--
http://silber.atariflys.de

[spooge demon]

Hmmm...

Critiques are fine, that's why I am here.

The mistakes made are not freedom, just mistakes, plain and simple.

I do disagree about the critique itself, the mistakes I made were not the ones you pointed out, that's all.

I did not find your post direspectful in the least

[FireWalker]

Great pic spoogie, looks superduper.

I'd just like to comment on silber's 3d perspective thingy... I agree with spooge in that it is an incorrect method in proving something wrong.. in that you may be able to find out what spooge's horizon line was, but you do not know how far from the scene spooge's eye was when doing this. You can't tell his 'depth' (especially since you are unable to see 2 parallel lines in the table). While the 'framing' in the 3d rendering is similar, I believe your depth is shorter than spooges. Try moving the camera back, and zooming in... that tends to compress space... I bet you will find things line up a lot more 'naturally'.