[nova]

Gamasutra News for 12.12.00:
http://www.gamasutra.com/newswire/

..and check the third story down

disgusting, as the femenist i am

also check
http://www.dailyradar.com/news/game_news_6298.html

and

http://www.womengamers.com/headline.php#00/12/15/095250


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*nova
!

[This message has been edited by Nova (edited December 15, 2000).]

[absinthe]

hold on...do you agree with the gamasutra article, or disagree?

...sorry...i'm confused...

[FaithInChaos]

womangamers.com hahahaha
men like to see sluty women with big tits half naked going at it like rambo. its a fact of life, and it sells games. most of the girls i know or have meet, only play online games like monarchy or flash/java card games. girls dont really go for the violent first person shooters. so it shouldnt really matter since they dont even play those games.
people are bitching about how woman are portrayed in video games, but have you ever looked at the men in these games? they are all on roids!
what bugs the fuck out of me is that, its ok to reward someone for murder in a game; but somehow its fucking wrong to show a little nipple.
it seems people think violence is ok and sex is wrong.

can you imagine if someone came out with a game where you could rape people? the backlash would be insane...
it just doesnt make sense, if murder is worse than rape on the moral scale; why is ok for someone to murder in a game but not to rape?!

anyways, i think there should be more violence and more sexuality in video games...why? because i am a man, and i like it.

[[Shizo]]

Damn American mentality :p
Wouldn't you say?

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Nothing really matters to me

[faustgfx]

i believe my comment towards what faithinchaos just said is "look at the thread 'i turn my computer on' or whatever it was called"

nuff said



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387

[kig]

Killing 'bad guys' supposedly is better than slowly torturing them to death, using medieval methods. There was an article named 20 worst tortures or something on Dailyradar a while ago. Grisly reading that, having all your bones broken with a large heavy wheel and then tying your soggy limbs around the spokes while you're still alive.

Whatever floats your boat. Moralism never brought me any good.

[nova]

to mostly absinthe, but to everyone in general who replied:

i don't think it's an issue if i agree or not, i think it's something that is inevitable, yet i don't think everything in that is totally right.

'murder', and/or violence in video games, i think could be seen as not so offensive by some people, mainly because it's more general to the whole population, not just women. you can kill anything, whether it be man or woman or even animal, and it would seem to be less offensive in such a thing as video games than, for example, rape.

as for women in video games, like i mentioned above, the sexual dealy is inevitable. from what i've seen and experienced, people as a whole want to see something beautiful in front of them, something that maybe, probably wouldn't exist in real life (which is why i think is the simple reason the fantasy theme became so pupular). in this case, this beauty is seen through females, which appeals to the majority of the gaming community, the males.
and another thing. i am actually proud of (the developers of) lara croft and the like for getting women characters in games. at least we have our part in games, whether it be bustly, blonde or exceedingly innocent.

the article quotes: "This analysis is the beginning of putting out some fundamental information for parents and for the industry itself to reflect upon on images and messages that children are getting about what it means to be female,".. yeah, i never really thought about this before. but i daresay the media is so darn powerful these says, and kid's minds are easily warped by what they see onscreen, ir in general, we have to be at least careful about what we show them, in my view as a female. and anything to reduce a more-or-less untrue image about a certian group of human beings is welcome in my opinion.

just my two cents. take it or leave it

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*nova
!

[This message has been edited by Nova (edited December 15, 2000).]

[Spitfire]

This is from the article :

quote

Quote:

Female characters held lead roles in 54 percent of those titles, while 92 percent had leading men.

Gosh, videogames make my children into psychopaths, not suprising in a world where 54 and 92 equals 100.

C'mon. You just gotta roll over the floor.

[Spitfire]

Oh, what i wanted to say before that hilarious sentence crossed my eye :

Actually its good to make characters (be it male or female) and events in games unrealistic. Because that way even the dumbest kid can see the difference between the game and reality (There are no fat, ugly girls around, ergo, this cant be real.). Now on the other hand if you would make your shooter anatomically and politically correct by portraying normal people (no sex-bimbos or rambos) then the contrast with the real world is much less.

C'mon, kids dont get their ideas about life from games or movies, but from what they see around them in real life.

[Budoka]

Faithinchaos, it's not strictly true that girls don't like playing video games with big busted gun slingin types - my ex just loved tomb raider etc. �i never did meet the person she ran off with!

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It's better to burn out than fade away�

[DirtyDigger]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nova:
from what i've seen and experienced, people as a whole want to see something beautiful in front of them, something that maybe, probably wouldn't exist in real life (which is why i think is the simple reason the fantasy theme became so pupular). in this case, this beauty is seen through females, which appeals to the majority of the gaming community, the males.

---

Hmm, from my experience in life people want to see misery and stuff that's really messed up. Most people don't want to see some idealistic setting that is always 'happy go lucky'. The evening news is a good example. seems it's always misery. A plane crash gets top news story of the day, whereas the guy who helped out the homeless gets the last minute of the news if any news at all. People 'rubber necking' at car accidents is another. My theory is people like to see misery because it makes them feel that 'well at least I'm not that bad off'.

Just my opinion of course. I'm not saying it's right, that's just the way it is.



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"I Hear High Heels!" - DirtyDigger

[nova]

quote:

---

girls dont really go for the violent first person shooters. so it shouldnt really matter since they dont even play those games.

---

hmm.. my favorite game ever is half-life.. and i'm trying to beat Deus Ex right now . it's true, though. too bad more girls don't play games



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*nova
!

[moocow]

someone DID come out with a game where the simple objective was to rape girls. it was for the old Sega CD platform. think it was called Night Terror or something like that (i have a feeling it's off). and yes, it received a HUGE backlash from the government...it was one of the big reasons why the new video game rating system is in place. that one would have been rated MA or worse (they would have had to put it on its own scale).

[Jabberwocky]

Come on guys face it. No girl with boobs that big and her underware that far up her butt would be able to run around little a long carry those big ass guns!

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You come to love not by finding the perfect person, but by seeing an imperfect person perfectly.

[shahar2k]

this is the main charecter for a game I'm working on... or at least the costume I'm planning... it's a girl... I dunno, but how many guys would really care if this was the main char?

[FaithInChaos]

as long as it relates to the plot, it really doesnt matter what sex the character is.
guys get off being in control of a hot babe, but they also get off pretending to be some muscle bound he-man.

i know there are some girls who like to play violent first person shooters, but i do know that the majority of girl gamers play online card, and text based games like muds and triva type games...

there is a rape game for the old nintendo; there are also a lot of playstation love sims that have rape, incest, and ect. in them. i think more video games should have sex and sexual content in them, i also believe violence in games should be taken to a whole new level. instead of killing scientists and soldiers: how about being able to kill the handicap, old people, babies, republicans, ect ect...you should be able to rape then kill or kill than rape.
necrophilia should be a must for all new games in development.


i live in a society that will not allow a nipple or pubic hair to be shown on t.v., but somehow they have rationalized that its ok to show people being killed, murdered, slaughtered, tortured to death on the same exact fucking airwaves.
i hate the u.s. i would think seeing T&A over murder would be more healthy, but somehow this stupid country has got things backwards. its time for us to force massive amounts of sexuality upon the masses, then sit back and watch as they drown it out with excess amounts of violence. in the end im hoping they will die, and i will have gotten a free blow job.

[Ben Barker]

Now that this article has brought my attention to it, I'm really affected by the 'Sarge' character in Quake 3. I stuggle every day to develop muscles like that, and I've even taken up cigars, and dyed my newly-butched hair white.

Anyway, this isn't half as bad as the women's movement to make computer science and engineering more 'woman friendly' (i.e. dumb it down). If I was a woman, that would offend me. Women are interested in some things, men moreso at others. Programming goes to men by a vast majority.

But let's just balance everything for the sake of balancing it! In fact, I demand that they add more beer to fashion design somehow, to make it more male friendly!

[Spitfire]

There�s no gibs in sex.



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The Couch Pleasures Me!!!

[FaithInChaos]

but there could be.

[aquamire]

Hmm.. and even tho it's not exactly video game related, what about all those damned GQ magazines portraying chizel jawed men, and sexiest man alive? What about god awful bands like N'Sync, and Back Street boys which portray a bunch of perfect speaking, lovey doving, singing guys? I know not all girls go for that, but even still the reason for portrayal of such people is the same reason why sex appeal of women is in video games. Sex appeal sells.. why? Everyone thinks about sex.


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-Aquamire
Soylent Green. It's what's for dinner.

[FaithInChaos]

from my perspective woman have equal rights, all these feminist rantings about how girls are being subjected to unrealistic expectations and role models is nothing that men dont have to deal with.
plus men are exploited more so in media than women, but you never here mens rights groups complain about it. im not even sure if there are any mens rights groups.
its not like there is a double standard anymore, only the people who allow themselfs to be discriminated against are...example: southern baptists.

in the big picture i really dont give a shit if women still think they are being discriminated against. we live in a "equal society," and i dont have any problem treating a female as an equal...its just that most woman still prefer the old double standard: dont hit girls, open doors for them, dont curse in front of them, dont grab your genitals, pick your nose, fart, men pay for dinner, female stays home and gets pregnant while man works, females are expected to be emotional, men are expected to be strong, ect ect.

i was have a discussion in my ethics class about gender equality; many of the females in class disagreed with my opinions, only because they were opinions taken from a male perspective. being a male, its hard for me to have anything but a "male perspective." anyways as class let out, this girl came up to me and slapped me in the face. on instinct i punched back, and it almost got me expelled from school. i guess we are supposed to treat females with equality and maintain a double standard at the same time.
fuck not hitting girls, if a girl hits me im going to take her down just like anyone else.
if a women wants equality, let them have it.

in my opinion all this politically corect nonsense is heavily biased towards females, its an over-reaction to the many years of male-dominance in our society. take the tolerance of feminists in mordern society for example, feminism is the empowerment of women. feminism does not advocate equality, it supports a pro-female only frame of mind. feminists are sexists just like the kkk is racist. the term "feminazi" is not so far off from the truth.

all these women who complain about how video games portray females, somehow have convinced themselfs that they have a special right not to feel insecure about their bodies. maybe if they spent more time on the stair master and less time playing vid's they wouldnt feel insecure. fuck, i know, i work out 2 hours everyday because it makes me feel good. i dont fucking complain about how aftershave commercials make me feel insecure and depressed.

in the end, well at least for video games, it all comes down to $$...
maybe video game companies can start a fund for all the fatties who become insecure when they play video games, you know send them to weight watchers or something.

[nightmare]

i dunno. when i hit a guy i usually expect to be hit back, maybe not hard cuz i don't hit hard, and cuz its all just playing. i think that some feminists r really disgraceful to women as a whole cuz yes, they do often ask for more rights not equal rights. but its a fact that women often do get paid a lot less for the same job as a man even if they have the same qualifications and everything. but thats not the point. the point is that guys have their problems with self image and we have ours. men sometimes feel they have to live up to the buff, cut look.
another thing: do women want to see fat, nasty guys doing nasty dances on tv selling soap or whatever? NO! we wanna see a cut/hot guy!! so men are allowed to want to see cute/hot gals on tv. its human nature.
but, even with all these huge breasted video-babes running around, guys still fall in love with us humble human girls so maybe its not such a big deal after all.

i probably missed the point completely but thats ok

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it's all a conspiracy!

[Bishop_Six]

FaithInChaos: All I have to say to you is, "Oh yeah, right on!" I'm glad to see someone not afraid to step on those damn egg shells for once. Political correctness be damned to hell!!

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Semper Ubi Sub Ubi,
Bishop Six

[Starseed]

I appreciate your edge too Faith. Cool name too, btw. I agree, a woman hits you, she should - today in our equality driven society - be hit back (unless it was something like a light slap that is making a statement).

In regards to the whole feminist thing, and how women are portrayed in video games . . . it really doesn't matter how they are portrayed. The moral line is drawn in a different place for everyone. The world is driven by demand, which is fed by a supply (econ101). There are a million things that go into sculpting everyones likes and wants. But the demand right now for average homely girls as lead characters, or realistic smart clever women who outwit all the evil male antagonists in a game is small. Hence, you don't see games of those types.

Where is the sin being committed? I think the only way to stop the evolving culture is to bend it towards a minority's wishes by making laws prohibiting certain things and ensuring that there is a certain level of other things (strong female lead characters for instance).

-mt

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everything is relative