[Synax]

First of all I just wanna say the stuff I see on this board is really impresive - alot of people here have lots of talent. There's always new artwork to be critisized everyday, and I think that's a big plus about this board. You can't get enough critisizm here. But lately the same comments keep reacurring: "That's pretty cool, but it needs a background" or "Why didn't you put a background in your piece?" and most of all "No offense, but please have at least the whole painting filled before posting it on here. <--(Note! No offense to the person who actually said that, nothing personal, I'm just using this as an example.)

Why the hell must everything need a background, or why can't an artwork have empty space? It makes me mad because if I was to post up some of my work, and I included empty space or something w/o a background, and somebody made a comment like the quotes aforementioned, I would take it as an insult to my work. I mean, putting all the time and effort into something just for someone to say "Put a background on it." It seems all people are interested in aren't the artwork itself, but whatever the hell is or isn't behind it...

Sorry if none of that made sense. Also, I didn't post this to push peoples buttons, I just wanted to get this off my chest...

--Synax

[Marksman]

well i totally agree with you
a frend of mine has something to say

hi
this is just my two cents worth

i think artist are aloud to compose a picture any way they see fit

(Artistic license)

[galaxal]

I guess everyone here who post their works because they are all proud of them and want to share them with all of us in this forum, and that's the happist point since they start from the first sketch. (not applied to ALL, some's happiest point might be when they right finished it)
mmmh, that's it.

[Francis]

Not everything needs a background, true. Especially work which is more like a concept piece, which is illustrating the design of an object or person or something.

However, most of the art that is posted here is not strictly about communicating the design of an object. Usually artists are creating a piece of artwork, and the artwork is the end product, and not just a throwaway document of another object (does that make sense?). In most cases, the subject needs some sort of context or environment to help explain the story or emotions the artist is trying to convey.

For example, if you have a painting with a guy holding a weapon, lit very dramatically, with a terrified expression on his face, wouldn't you want to see his surroundings, what he's facing and why he's scared? Rather than just seeing him on a blank white background, at least.

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Francis Tsai
TeamGT Studios

[proximo]

Hmm that sounds way familiar .. hmmm Ohh yah ! some guy posted that on my last post .. the name being .. new pic not done yet feed back plz or something like that .. i posted my pic that i forewarned .. is not done yet.. no background no hair, no mouth no ears or even eye brows yet! , why would put a back ground in this pic at this point in time would be stupid .. to tell you the truth .. it did piss me off when he said that .. like as if all the work i did was for not .. like its ok but i can give you any feed back without a background .. as if he was the moderator of the board and was telling me that by posting this pic .. with no back i was in some way offending the whole board and should be banished from it all ! well at any rate im glad im not the only one who noticed it eheh ,, there were a few people who posted on my pic who also thought this guy didn't know what he was talking about .. as if he didn't have anything to say .. so he just posted his comment .. but im not one to hold a grudge. i just let them come and i take them as they are .. well i think that is about it ahahah .. sorry i need to get that off my chest ! ,,

[Nex]

To some degree I agree with you Syntax.

There are not THAT many people that give you feedback after all. And when they do and they post something like just " 'add a background.' " or " 'Anatomy, anatomy, anatomy' " and nothing else it makes me mad as well because these comments are just useless.

There ARE people here that really give good advice and helpful comments or that are just plain funny

So don't let the down get you syntax and just read what helps you furher, ignore the stuff that does not... just plain and simple

See you.

[nori]

no one wants to hold your hand while you attempt to finish your painting. And no one wants to see it 5 times before it's done.

[Nex]

I have no problem with seeing the same pic 5 times when there is a progress.

If you have a problem with that, you don't have to look at it or post something to it.

And to hold the artists hand and to give him feedback are two different things.

Or don't you expect do get some feedback when you post your stuff?

[This message has been edited by Nex (edited June 25, 2000).]

[proximo]

The reason why people post there pic when it is not done is truly to get feed back .. there are times when you have been working on a pic for a long time and can not see the that something is wrong with the eye and stuff like that .. you need somone to give you that feed back so you can realize that the eye needs to be fixed b4 its way late in the project .. i just think that posting unfinished work helps others while helping the person who posted the pic .. i mean think about it .. the guy who posted the pic get help and people who want to see the process get help also because they can see what pics look like when they are still being worked on .. i mean i love it when people post stuff that is not quite done yet .. you can still see the under drawing and stuff like that i find it cool .. but then again there are those people who do post lke 5 or 6 times .. new threds i might add for each and are like what do you think now ? and all they did was grab the burn tool . or smug somthing that you can not even tell .. now that can get old , but when people truly work on it and apply the feed back i think thats cool .. cuz the pic came from the calaberation of minds .. working togeather as a team to make a final pic .. isnt that what the work place and the world is all about .. working togeather ? eheh .. ok im done ..

[proximo]

well we all need to get somthing off out chest .. and well in a real world crit.. that im sure we have all been is b4 .. is diff then this forum i think.. or not so much diff but depending on the post name .. i guess i should say .. when somone post somthing and says not finished in prgress .. feed back .. i really dont think they are asking people to point out the obvious.. like .. it need a background ! .. or he has no hair ! . like duh ! if he had those things he would no longer be in progress ! .. eheh its just that somtimes the comments that people make.. make no sence.. im not say im going to sit around and think omg .. i let me go no big deal .. eheh anyhow ... just thought i would ... get that off my chest :P (ohh yah i posted an update to my pic .. still not done and no i dont want to be led by the hand .. im just showen progress, in the hopes that somone will see somthing i dont see so i can fix it b4 its too late )

[Synax]

Nice to see that you're too scared to write under your real user name, tubercle. Seeing as you have one post total...

"So, you don't work the image as a whole, the only thing important is the main element." I never said that. What I said was if someone was to post an image and the comments they receive are "putting in a background" then what's the use?

I want to use something derpunkt said to me once as an example (hope you don't mind derpunkt) he said "Say I was to make an image that was to be described as Fear. I would take a big, empty, black space and put two eyes looking at me in the right hand corner" I agree with him there. But then someone would probably dish out a critisizm like "Why don't you add more to it?"

Also, I'm not getting pissed like you keep saying, I think the only one here pissed is you...

"please elaborate on what you meant by 'put in a background.' If they don't respond, they have no idea what they are talking about in the first place." That's what I'm trying to say... Although it may not seem like so at first.

"If you want to get something off your chest, tell a friend, the whole world doesn't need to hear it." Maybe so, but I wanted to hear other opinions besides my own, or my "friends'"

Anyways, I'm not trying to start any fights with anybody. I'll only reply now on if something I said needs to be clarified.

--Synax

[Tinusch]

Cool it, Tubercle. Synax has a valid argument, there's no need to get cocky with him. I think DerPunkt's comment summed up perfectly what Synax is trying to say. People sometimes leave spaces empty for effect. If that's the way they want it, then that's how it's going to be. And Proximo had a great point when he said:

"It needs a background!", or, "He has no hair!" Like, duh! If he had those thing, he would no longer be "in progress"!

People usually post there work to have obvious errors pointed out for them, not to have their entire vision remolded. Just my $.02.

[wootkoos]

Here you all are bitching at one another about a simple subject matter as "Should someone post a piece of artwork with or without a background." Stop being a buncha bums on the forum and go do something productive!

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wootkoos ( [email protected] )

[Joachim]

i just can't understand this discussion.

I have never felt that this forum pushes people to include backgrounds to their pics. Do whatever you like. A nice character, a nice background, or both..or maybe something totally different. People give feedback of what they think the picture needs to be improved. Sometimes it could be a backgr. sometimes better anatomy or composition or whatever.

You should post something synax. If you have pictures that really screams for a background to look complete, people will say so....but, it shouldn't be something you should take as an insult but more as "constructive" critiscm.

Feedback just to make you feel good is something you can get from your parents or girlfriend .....but, usually I get the feeling that people are pretty good at wrapping critiscm into a nice package with praise as well at this forum
-so, don't worry.

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Joachim
web: http://home.sol.no/~jbarrum/

[Synax]

Man this forum rules.

--Synax

[This message has been edited by Synax (edited June 25, 2000).]

[Nex]

good that you found a common ground here.

I just wanted to add that people like our mister "tubercle" make me laugh.

Either you have an opinion and stand to it, or you don't then keep your post to yourself.

There is nothing more lame and retarded as going under "Mr. Anonymous" only because of fear.

What you said is not that offensive that you could not have posted it under your normal name.

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- Nex

http://on.to/nex

[hennifer]

generally, if empty space is being used for 'artistic effect' its fairly obvious, because the empty space must be USED artistically. if you just leave the entire background blank, with a foreground character, that doesn't give you the feeling that it's been 'thought out' - it just looks unfinished. if you're making an illustration of a scene, then you should at least give SOME hint to the viewer of the setting. it's part of communicating the scene that you're illustrating. we see a lot of illustrations on this board, as opposed to 'fine art,' so usually a background is called for.

on the other hand, if you're making a picture that involves an element of abstraction, or a message that's more important than an illustration, and if you're really thinking about the use of empty space, then sure.

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hennifer

[Rinaldo]

Mr Mullins always said to rid the picture plane of white (unless it's supposed to be white of course). It helps you get the values right even if its just an aproximation of what you want. you need to put a background in to fully develope the main subject. Colors are relative to their surrounding colours. Its an oversight not to put a background in as soon as you can. Not saying that people who dont have a background don't deserve comments. Hovever they should be aware of the power of white-space and the effect it is going to have on their audiance.

[Synax]

Wow, replies come fast...

Marksman(or your friend I should say): Exactly. That's what I'm trying to say.

galxal: I feel this forum is a pool to soak up inspiration. It's also a place to post your artwork and get positive feedback, and to feel good about yourself - everyone needs a little of that.

Francis: I agree with you. I have no problem with the images posted up here that have backgrounds, I'm not anti-background... I enjoy seeing big pieces that try to give you a feeling of the environment. When I think of your explanation, I think of your latest work, and it's great. It's better than anything I could do. But what I'm saying is that not all people want to add environment. Maybe the artist will just give you enough so maybe you (the person looking at the artwork) can make up the rest of the image in your mind. Maybe instead of simply saying "it needs a background" say something like "I like this because...and it looks like the environement would/could be...and it feels like..." etc.

proximo: I was looking at your post when I was writing this. I feel the same way as you, to some degree.

Nex: I know there are people here that give great advice and critisizm, why else would I keep coming back?

nori: dunno what's up w/ you... no one said anything about holding someone's hand while his/her artwork is progressing.

Anyways...

--Synax (NOT Syntax!!!)

[Nex]

Sorry, Syn_ax of course

I just spent too much time on my old C64 and got too many "Syntax errors", so Syntax is burnt into my head.

[Affected]

"...a place to post your artwork and get positive feedback, and to feel good about yourself..."

Well, possibly, but that won't help you improve, will it? I come here in hopes of critique and the recent help Fred and others have kindly been giving.

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Affected

Democracy is a lie

http://affected.xs.mw

[Synax]

Affected: "It's also a place to post your artwork and get positive feedback, and to feel good about yourself - everyone needs a little of that."

I don't care what you say, everyone DOES need a little of that. You're right though, harsh critiques will help one improve, if explained the right way. By the right way, I mean no feedback like "this sucks" etc...

--Synax

[tubercle]

WTF?
"I mean, putting all the time and effort into something just for someone to say "Put a background on it." It seems all people are interested in aren't the artwork itself, but whatever the hell is or isn't behind it..."
So, you don't work the image as a whole, the only thing important is the main element. that's great you'll go real far with that attitude.
I think francis covered that part very nicely

yes, you're asking for someone to hold your hand, if someone suggests to you to put in a background, why are you getting pissed, do they have to spell it out for you? Do they have to show you a picture

What's wrong with posting images that are in progression? You're showing that you are taking the advice that's given and want help along they way. So i agree, there is nothing wrong with that. If they don't want to see the image as it progress, leave the damn thread! duh!
Proximo did a good job covering that part.
I guess my part is, Don't get pissed off becaus someone doesn't spell things out for you. I would hate to see you in a real life critique with people standing around you. You just gonna get pissed and take down your image? Learn to deal with these people. Yeah, I know there are people out there who just posting a comment to be part of the critique and nothing more, so the next time that happens, simply say " please elaborate on what you meant by "put in a background." If they don't respond, they have no idea what they are talking about in the first place.

If you want to get something off your chest, tell a friend, the whole world doesn't need to hear it.
have a nice day

"Sorry if none of that made sense. Also, I didn't post this to push peoples buttons, I just wanted to get this off my chest..."