[Nightime]

Hey I love this forum, and I'm sure you all do too.

How about we post our suggestions in this thread to make it a better place, I know there has been other topics about this -- but I think having 'em compiled all in one will be a good start.

Here's mine:

1) Deluge of Threads..eek
... I don't post much, but I read just about every message, and I'm starting to notice a trend. Most work, even great ones, are becoming lost in a sea of new comers posting their image. This is not to discourage new comers (this place wouldn't be around for a thriving community!), but I think it is unfair to see a half rendered sketch of a figure overshadow a nicely, lots of effort, piece.

I think, in an ongoing sea of unfamiliar names, surfers are beginning to only look for recognizable big-wigs to check into their threads, and the sporadic-posting guys ("lesser known") who do lovely work are taking a back seat.

Perhaps, is it possible, to enforce a ten-day lurking period before a new comer creates a new thread? This way, a new comer will idealy get a feel for the forum before they start making new topics, and at the same time, medium - to veteran level Sijunees get a chance to receive feedback.

Maybe this wouldn't have to be feature, and it'll be listed under Forum Guidelines?

2) Profile Icons

Hey I've seen other forums have this feature -- it's kind of neat. What it is, the poster has his own icon next to their name. It can either be their real picture, or a thumb nail work of art representing themselves.

3) Image Hosting. Some servers, like CrossWinds, or the infamous XOOM, do not allow posts to directly link graphic files. It isn't so bad for Xoom anymore (as you can simply drag the image url to the topic to view it), but for others, it can be a little tricky. Seeing that bastid [X] ("File Not Found") icon can really be annoying!

Maybe have a notice that these domains have trouble for posters, and it'll be better to set up home elsewhere -- this notice can pop up when a user signs up. The last time I signed up was months ago, so I don't remember if this was there at all.

--

Well that's it for now!

Please post suggestions to keep this place #1

Thanks,

Nightime

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JJ / Nightime
http://members.home.net/jeremy12/web/

[This message has been edited by Nightime (edited September 19, 2000).]

[Chapel]

The icons idea sounds neat. As for the 10 day lurking period.. that just means the forum will be spammed 10 days from when that person signed up. We wouldn't notice a difference.

I think Random Musings should be used for the purpose of introductions.. general questions and random topics. Leave the Digital Art forum for just posting art and getting critiques. I think the name "Random Musings" should be renamed for this purpose. Something like "Non-Aat posting Forum"

(Course I think Dhabih is the one who should be asking this question since nobody else has any power)

[Chris]

I think they are seperated pretty good as it is. Sometimes I see some posts that refer to art, but if we can't answer it then I just redirect them to the art forum. Other then that it should be able to post here, uno "Movies, Games, Whatever" but not art stuff

The delay for newbies I don't like, cause they might be newbies to this site, but they know how to use messageboards and if they were halfway intelligent then they know what messages go were

Plus I did (automatically) look around both places before I started posting. I don't even really visit the Digital forums, cause I know I couldn't answer anything there intelligently...cause I can't draw

[SaltyDog]

I agree whole-heartedly on the newbie deluge issue. I'm not sure how they all found out about this place (I'm guessing the lunch table at school)
But it does get *very* frustrating to come to the forum and see 80 new threads containing nothing more than half-assed pencil doodles they did during a particularly boring Math class. Not to say that there isn't merit in those sorts of things. Lord knows I was once there too. But there really isn't any need to post a ton of this shit and then ask how to draw a nose or anatomy right.
One word simply answers the 3 million posts. PRACTICE. Get out and observe. Far too many newbies are using this forum as more of a crutch than for constructive criticism.
I know personally, it's dampered my desire (along with many others) to even frequent the forum because of it.
Now this all might sound a little harsh, but it's the equivalent of a 3rd grader walking into a college course and showing their finger paintings and asking for advice. Sure, they'll get tons of helpful hints, but really...are they going to fully take advantage of that sort of thing without knowing the fundamentals first?!
I have absolutely NO clue on how to enforce something like that. On one hand, 10 days seems too little time, and on the other, what if the "newbie" is a very talented artist, be it professional or otherwise...Well...I guess they could wait 10 days without sweating it.
Well damn...I just ranted for a spell there.
Simply put, this forum has been overrun and needs to thin it's ranks abit.
Rant over with.

Salty

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Don't let the *Man* keep ya down.

http://holeinthewall.8k.com

[Impaler]

"Doh".

Icons are a no-no, unless you enforce STRICT rules (no more than 32 x 32 pixels.. etc.) This is primarily an art forum with primarily large images being posted on a regular basis. With large discussions that take place around these primarily large pictures, it would kill bandwidth. Instantly. And as proficient artists are the ones who inhabit this board, a tiny greyscale thumbnail linking to the artist's most prominent picture would be best. That way even the lesser known guys get recognition.

As for the ten day waiting period, it might be fine, but there are some great artists whom just never feel the need to post on forums. Then they decide that maybe it might be well to post. So they come to this fine collection of cgi script and pixelage, and find out that they can't post. Turn-off.

Instead.. how about just a Newbie forum? All posts regarding the "Hi! I'm new here! This is my picture of a purple hippo riding a banana!" would have to be posted to that forum, lest a snobby flamewar ensue.

Organization baby. It's sexy.

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My signature is slightly better than yours.

[Nightime]

Good to see some replies here, let's keep the ball rollin.

Impaler wrote: "a tiny greyscale thumbnail linking to the artist's most prominent picture would be best. That way even the lesser known guys get recognition."

I like that idea, a lot. Some kind of personal history of images they posted, and indeed.. preferably their best. (Or just one thumb nail)

I hope Dhab is reading this thread

-Nightime


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JJ / Nightime
http://members.home.net/jeremy12/web/

[Nex]

how about a "Sijun Bootcamp" site where all the basic rules are explained, questions answered, and some tutorials/exercises to improve drawing and anatomy.

This would take the all too basic questions from the board and get the newbies into the right tracks before?

[Chapel]

Chris: do you ever go to the DA forum? Its a mess now. I work on a drawing for 2 days post it and it dissappears off the main page in a few hours. It gets bumped off by a bunch of "look what I did in 2 minutes" posts. The pros that visit don't even have time to critique things anymore. Too many posts to read through to find one decent thing.

[Nightime]

I really do feel we need a "Doodle" folder to calm the thread traffic.... doodles act as great caffeine for the brain, but it isn't fair to take a beat seat to a less than 5 minute splurg.

Also I think it'd be kind of neat to see a bunch of squiggles housed under one roof.. like a chimney of potential ideas waiting to be lit. Posters won't have to be conscious of serious critique, as sketch-journals are a mattress of possibilities, and we in this Doodle folder can just draw & draw our hearts out!


Now, I still think .rendered. sketches and figure studies from life should stay in the regular forum, as they're great lessons for _everyone_

As more are exposed to Digital Art and inspired to chime in (which is wonderful!), the traffic in DA can only climb further, until it reaches a state of discernable thread-orgies. Let's hope it doesn't come to that!

-Nightime

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JJ / Nightime
http://members.home.net/jeremy12/web/

[This message has been edited by Nightime (edited September 23, 2000).]

[burn0ut]

Damn i totally agree with what saltydog said n most of the others, i come here expecting some nicely done quality work, but all i find is some halfassed 5min doddles someone colored. ;( i swear today alone ive seen about 10 new people with just bs , hah thats the reason i accually came to this board instead of the DA because i was just bleh!~~

[Chapel]

I just saw a thread where a 10yr old newbie is giving advise to another newbie on anatomy tips. I don't think I'm posting in the DA until spooge or some of the big guys come back.

[burn0ut]

lol
not to make fun of anybody ... heh
i just saw a topic that had something to do with a 5yr old.... i didnt bother looking .. sigh

[Impaler]

I concur almost 101%.

The art here has definitely evolved into definable categories, and there should be forums respectively.

But, the question is, how do we avoid huge amounts of anger? How do we divide the art?

The 5-minute art forum is of course going to get less attention. People post their pictures, for the most part, to get attention and feedback. And most people just do not feel the urge to go and wade through exceeding amounts of subpar art. So the posters get angry and greedy and post their art in the Rendered-Effort-Week-to-draw Forum and flood it again. The whole purpose becomes defeated.

I really like the Sijun Bootcamp idea. Howz about we take it a step further and make a forum completely devoted to "How do I...?" posts. After a certain point this will turn itself into a tutorial situation and newbies/other won't post the same question over and over again in DA. They just head to the Q&A forum. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! And it'll improve the quality of art here, since most folk tend to avoid the Howto posts in DA, leaving questions unanswered.

Damn. I rambled in this post. Oh well.

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My signature is slightly better than yours.

[Chapel]

Q&A forum sounds good.

[SaltyDog]

Well lotor (an art college pal) and I were talking about this topic over dinner last week and here's an idea we came up with.

Different rankings and levels for the forum.
For example: The Spooges,Freds,Lokis,Fengs, Mickes, Joachims of the forum would obviously be level 1. Only they can post in their forum. We can all view, and if they want advice they could post in a lower forum (obviously they have access to all the forums) And members of lesser forums (hopefully around 3 or so..descending in rank) may be allowed to ascend to the higher forums by a majority vote from the boys upstairs. Luckily, for the most part, the most talented artists here are really cool guys and they'd be completely honest and forthcoming.

This would require a smidgen more responsibility on the big boys' part (probably a monthly icq meeting or something) to check prospective members for their higher forum.
In turn this would put a fire under the asses of us lesser folk to turn out higher quality work in order to eventually run with the big dogs.
Sound like a plan? This would eliminate all the newbies flooding us with pointless work. They'd be restricted to flooding their "newbie" forum and in turn we'd all get the opportunity to be inspired, flame free, by some of the better artists around.

Of course this would take a bit of work for Dhabih...establishing these forums and password protecting but it'd be for the best, I truly believe.

Enough outta me for now. Lemme know if this sounds good.

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Don't let the *Man* keep ya down.

http://holeinthewall.8k.com

[SushiMaster]

"Five minute art" is definitely gonna generate a lot of heat. I mean, I can work on a pic for 2 days and it won't look as good as one of spooge's five-minute sketches. Then again, I suppose spooge wouldn't bother posting his five-minute sketches (except when he does them to help someone).

I said it before, I'll say it again, I think we need to split the forums, and according to objective definitions. For instance, creating a traditional media art forum would roughly split the digital art forum in about 2/3 1/3, which would already help. Q&A forum would also be a very, very, very good idea. Creating just these two forums (and getting people to post in the right place - simplest method is to have a moderator move their post when they post in the wrong place) will help tremendously.

And yes, it does work. It works on all the forums I browse and/or moderate, so I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work here.

Please do it Dhabih! :-)

Daniel

[bell_maker]

hey guys..
im new to these forums as well.. been surfing through these forums daily for a few weeks before i signed up a few days ago.. but i also agree with you.. there are lot of 2 minute pics by new-comers posted every hour because they dont get a reply ..

i think that suggestion about ranks is alright.. koz then itll be more tidy and you'd actually have to post something good to get up a rank etc..

well abotu the thumbnails.. would you relaly be able to fit something into that little space in the left?

wel hope i wasnt an intruder into these disccusions

[Impaler]

Who's to say who would belong in the Level 1 forum? Or the Level 2? And so on. We all have our strokes of genius that would land us in the Level 1. And we all have flurbs that are less-than newbie quality.

And then there would be the obvious hurt feelings..

"Whine!! I should be in Level 1!!! I spent 4 weeks on this picture! This forum isn't fair!!!"


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My signature is slightly better than yours.

[Seph|roth]

Well, im new here as well. However, before becoming a member, i DID check out the forums and artwork for a couple of months.
I do agree to the idea of the Q&A forum but besides that, i dont think it'll be possible dividing the members here into seperate groups. No matter how hard we try to, someones not gonna be happy and eventually some big argument is gonna break loose. Like i said before, ive been checkin this forum since like june but i only decided to become a member recently and I admit that there HAS been an overwhelming amount of lil doodles and 5 mins sketches recently. But what can we do ? I dont have any breakthrough ideas about all this, but until someone does, we'll have to deal with it. Damn, for all I know, you guys might even be talking about me !
(I really hope not though)

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- Seph -
Listen Without Prejudice

[Isric]

I think SaltyDogs idea is fantastic!
What more motivation could there be than to walk the halls of the gods? People will ALWAYS have hurt feelings, but so what? We learn best from pain (in kickboxing more than art, but it still applies..) so i don't think we should worry about that.

The bottom line is this: Some people suck. They shouldn't be allowed to call what they do "Art". But in this world, who makes the money? Who gets far in their career? The ones who have "IT" and the ones who work hard to get "IT".

I say if someone can't draw as good as someone else, we help them. Give them some motivation, a goal to set their sites on. i know I would work damn hard for the chance to get to level 1.

Great idea!

[bell_maker]

well sure people's feelings would get hurt.. but as someone else commented.. its the best way to get ebtter...

sure the level 3 or other people wont be able to post their messages in the level 1 but still that doesnt mean that people wouldnt go into their forums.. beacuse level 3's wouldnt be able to post into the level 1 forums etc.. its a strive to get upto the level 1!! and naturally the people who have been here the longest would go up ig uess.. but soon they would invite ebtter people.. good people i gues..
like there are people with 700-1000 posts here and i think thats good nuff for level 1

well thats just my part.. i think that would be good.. it would make ME work harder to get up as well..

[el tigre]

You couldn't have level access decided by number of posts or newbies would spam the place up just trying to get to level 1.

The other problem is who would decide if promotion was based on skill. We all agree that Spooge, Fred, Wacomonkey etc. are good at what they do, but there's a lot of people who don't recognise the skill of Spitfire or Synj (both who are equally as good as the above IMO at what they do)

Then there's people like myself who rarely post images but would like the opportunity to do so when they feel like it, for educated critisism which, no offence meant, would probably be not as forthcoming on the newbie boards. I mean, if you were on the no.1 board, would you give even a cursory glance to the thousands of newbie posts on the nursery board?

Something needs to be done, I just don't know what.

Sorry for rambling :�

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Does anyone know the secret formula? :�

[bell_maker]

yes.. well what i meant was that just when the level restrictions are first placed.. those people with high posts would get to go level 1.. and then frmo then on it would be them chooosing.. but as you said some forms of art could go neglected.. yes i agree. somethign should be done .. mm..
well happy hunting