[Max]

Yeah, I know, this question comes up once in a while and I have read quite alot about it. Still I am not sure if I should go for a CRT or LCD.

I definately need a dual screen setup. Preferably 21" each.
I actually bought a LCD 19" Sony a year ago. It's rather useless tho because it has a contrast ratio of 800:1. Meaning it's not black,...it's grey. (I wasn't aware of this when I bought it) Completely bugs me with games and working in PS is also irritating because it has a value gradiation from light to dark at the corners. Still it cost me about 300 euros. (damn!!)

So...Is there some nice LCD out there which has contrast ratios that can be compared to an old CRT 21" monitor (like IBM, Samsung etc) or would these be like 100 000:1 - costing the earth ?

The highest I saw were about 3000:1. Is that 100% black? Don't think so,...

Won't spend more than 500 euros altogether. Maybe I go for just one LCD widescreen for up to 500 euros if it truly rocks and make a combo with my 19" Sony...

Maybe I should wait another year and buy a LCD then if they get any better?
What would be good high-quality CRT monitors for now then?

Any help would be appreciated. I know you guys are into these things ; )

Cheers

[Jimmyjimjim]

I've had very good luck with my 19" Acer AL1916 LCD. It was bought for $189.00 at Circuit City. I read a review that says it does not have DVI (which either is not true, or I have a newer version).

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1962518,00.asp

I've read different reviews that say th e contrast ratio is anywhere from 700:1 to 1000:1. I don't know the reality, but I looks pretty damn good.

[fruity_loops]

I'm not really a professional, but I'm super happy with my EIZO. Maybe you can find something there.

[Max]

Thanks so far Jimmy and fruity_loops.

Those EIZO monitors look really nice. The 21.1" versions costs about 700 euros tho. And has "only" 3000:1

I did some research and found some SED based products. They truly have a contrast ratio of 100000:1 They're slighly expensive,... : )

After everything I have read I still think CRTs are still used by professional people in the industry mainly because of the color and contrast quality. (space isn't a problem for me. not sure about the health stuff "eyes" ?)

I could get two of those: 21" Monitor IBM P275, Flat-Trinitron, 2048x1536 (1600 x 1200 @ 85Hz)

Still not sure. LCDs are kinda stylish...

[Mikko K]

I had similar problems in the past, the LCD's I bought while living in UK were simply not useable for painting, because of bad color quality.

Right now, I'm pretty happy with my two 20" Dell screens I have at work. I've mapped my A4 intuos to one of them, and the other one is reserved for references, or 3dsmax.

I prefer the aspect ratio of the tablet, so I switched one 24" widescreen to two 20" 's.

I suspect that if you use something between 500-1000 euros per screen, you should be okay. The 100-200eur screens I have experience with have sucked major ass.

edit: I find the LCD's much better for your eyes, especially when reading text or doing 3d modeling. Painting is okay on a CRT, but I'm slowly starting to think that the advantages of LCD outweigh the disadvantages, namely color reproduction.

[Max]

Thanks for the tipp Mikko!

At the moment I am stuck between an LCD EIZO 21" 3000:1 for about 700 euros

and

2 of these IBM Monitors I have mentioned before. Together they'd cost me 200 euros (shipping included) - great find in one of these online shops.


so.....has anyone a 3000:1 monitor and can give me some hints? At the stores you can hardly turn off the lights to test the LCD's black white contrast,...if it'd be 3 times bettern than my current LCD it'd still be gey lol : )

[Mikko K]

For some reason, I don't believe that the contrast ratio is the problem.

I would look more into viewing angle as well, the cheap ones often produce a "negative" looking darks even from a perfect angle.

I'm probably ordering a 23 inch Apple Cinema today, and that only has 400:1 contrast ratio but the colors should be very good from what I've heard. So I guess the common issue with poor darks, is mostly the thing with cheap and fast screens meant for gaming. Even if those have a lot of contrast, I suspect it's only useful if you want to work in very bright office, or there's sunlight..


I might be wrong, but the contrast might also be an issue. In UK I had a screen that even when I dropped the brightness from 100% (default) to 0%, it would still be too bright in a dimly lit room. Much brighter than I'd like.

Dropping the brightness would screw up the contrast, so you can't mess with it too much without losing some of the color range, as most colors seem to display best when you have that crazy amount of brigtness in use

Edit: Ordered the Cinema 23" for around 920 euros. Should arrive on monday, so I'll tell if it's any good then

[Max]

Those negative darks are definately a problem too. There are always dark areas at the corners even at a perfect angle as you said.
I turned the brightness down to 30% too at my LCD however it doesn't make any difference concerning the darks and colors.
And I think every LCD screen has a backlight or some kind of lamp which causes the screen to be bright no matter if it shows pure black or not.

Maybe these Apple producs can do the magic. If you get yours open a 100% Black canvas in PS and turn off all lights in your room.
If you can't see your monitor you should be lucky ;D
They're for sure exppensive, slightly too expensive to be worth it for me tho.

Even the 30" Display (1800 euro!!! : / ) can't equal a working space of 2 x 21" CRT.
Maybe it's better for the eyes,..that's the only thing I am still not sure about.

Anyway, I'd be glad to get your feedback on those Apple cinema LCD's altough I might order my IBM CRTs anyway now.
Too cheap to ignore 'em. And I think I'll buy a cinema 30" in a year and combo with my crappy SONY 19" LCD. Might be half the price....hehehe

[Sumaleth]

I recently did a heap of research into the 22" widescreen market, which is sort of the sweet spot for price vs size in the LCD market right now.

In all the comparative reviews, the Samsung 226BW came out tops. It has a 2ms refresh rate and a 3000:1 contrast ratio, and better image quality than its brethren.

It's a bit more expensive than the other 22" monitors, but I went with the Samsung anyway.

It had a big problem with values -- the top of the monitor was way darker than the bottom. So I got a replacement under warranty, and the replacement had the same problem. I did some tests, and the top of the monitor was about 80% darker than the bottom (which changed depending on where I put my head, but there was no sweet spot). That's no good for the design work I do, so I got a refund.

The guy in the store told me that if I want professional colors from an LCD I'll only get that from professionally-priced monitors, not the cheap home-priced stock.

I'd heard good things about the Dell 2407 24" LCD, and they were on special so I ordered one of those the same day. That was a week ago, and I've not received it yet.

They use the Dell's at the animation studio where I used to work, so I'm hoping this one will be good.

If the Samsungs didn't have the gradation problem, I'd have been very happy with it. The image quality was crisp and clear, the contrast range was very good, and it's a great looking monitor. A shame that the (I assume) back-light cast a soft glow on the bottom two thirds of the screen.

I think I've been pushing for an LCD just because they seem to be the thing to get now. If I had the desk space and saw some CRTs that had really good image quality, I'd have to consider them seriously. But I'll see how this Dell works out for now.
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[Jimmyjimjim]

'Leth-

Surprises me to hear about the Samsung, I got one of their Widescreen LCD TVs and it rocks, way better picture than any other I saw at the store.

I'm pretty happy with the color and viewing angle of the Acer, but I think I'm going to plop down on an apple cinema display when I can afford it.

[Sumaleth]

I actually bought these on about the same day:

Samsung 22" LCD monitor
Samsung 26" LCD TV
Samsung DVD/HDD recorder
Samsung Washer/Dryer Combo

Monitor was returned, the washer has some issues, the dvd/hdd is an older model and has some rough interface issues but is otherwise very good, and the TV absolutely kicks ass.

The TV was around $1500AU, and the monitor was less than $500AU, so that might be the reason.
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[watmough]

We use Dell at my work as well and they are fine for what we do(concept art).
No problems with them at all.


I agree with mikko about the CRTs and your eyes,LCD is so much easier on them.

[Tzan]

Hey! You moved to Austin.

I lived there for a year. I liked it, its a nice place.

[Jimmyjimjim]

'Leth-

Interesting- kind of seems like Samsung is REALLY hit or miss with their products. I bought a Samsung HDMI upconvert DVD player, and the thing wouldn't play a movie without skipping all over the place. Went right back to the store, got a Panasonic, had the same problem, returned for a Phillips, played without skipping, but for some reason some discs would rattle in the player and sound like a lawnmower while playing (no kidding). Took that back and got a Sony (which skipped occassionally), took it back for another Sony that works fine.

[Tomasis]

Dont stare blindly at contrast ratios. it is completely meaningless. I'm just using only 50% and 30% for contrast respective brightness after calibrated with Eye2 calibrator for the target 120cd (normal brightness). So it is not optimally using full strenght of available contrast/light.

Rather look what panel is sitting on monitors which you're interested of at the site http://www.flatpanels.dk/skaerme.php

S-IPS, PVA panels are quite good for picture critical works. Other cheap panels as TN (samsung bw226 as example) are more suited as office monitors with bad view angles and less vivid colours.

Myself I'm using NEC 1980FXI with S-IPS panel. it is very fantastic looking panel and I'm planning to add one cheap refurbished 21" nec 2180uxi with SA-SFT panel. I dont have much clues about specific panels but most expensive professional monitors as NEC Spectraview and Eizo CG series are using such panels named above with diods as light source so it must be more than enough good.

Monitors with PVA panels are used to be reasonably priced and newer Dell monitors (2407) are very good choice, same with HP LP2465 or anything else with same panels except for TN.

Avoid TN panels at any price if you're gonna use for picture critical works.

[watmough]

Tzan,yeah i moved to Austin about a month ago ,and so far its great!

Heard a lot of good things about the city,and they have all pretty much been true.

[B0b]

see this thread http://forums.sijun.com/viewtopic.php?t=40282

[Max]

Thanks everyone for your information!!! I truly appreciate it!

Bob: ups, couldn't find this thread via forum search engine. Thanks!

At the moment I think I just haven't enough money for a LCD screen that truly meets my expectations.
I will order two 21" CRT and take a look at those LCD monitors again in a year. Your infos will be of great value then.

I'll post a pic of my new setup as soon as the stuff arrives.

Thanks again

[Awetopsy]

Many dell monitors have a the same light/dark problem mentioned by Sumaleth above. Mine at work does. Also many LCDs have an isue with colors never having quite the right values. My Dell lcd never shows color as nicely as my viewsonic crt at home. I recommend veiwsonic crts for a great overall color vs. brightness, although they are rather bulky when they get over 19".

[Mikko K]

Max>

Got the Cinema 23" today. I'm impressed by it already. Recent paintings look similar in colour quality than they did on my Philips 21" CRT. Can't wait to start working!

ps. I can't see any pinkish tint on this one. Maybe it's a bit more towards warm greys than cool, but looks reasonable to me.

[Max]

Sounds nice Mikko Hope we see some kickass stuf from you then ; )

I hope I get my CRTs soon. Can't await it.

[Lunatique]

I'm pretty picky about monitor quality, and I have been really happy with switching to LCD a couple years ago. I now use LCD at home and work, and I don't CRT at all. I have a 24" at home and I love it. although part of me sometimes think that having 2 slightly smaller monitors would be better for doing actual work (music, art..etc). For multimedia and gaming I can't complain though, but keep in mind a larger monitor means it taxes your graphics card more.

[Art Print-ce]

I'm going to buy LG 204WT, the cotrast is 2000:1. The colours are great. Does anyone use it?
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[B0b]

[Capt. Fred]

You can't buy a CRT in 2007!

Are they still being manufactured?

[Sumaleth]

I received my Dell 2407 24" LCD monitor yesterday. It's fantastic.

The price on these has dropped a lot lately, presumably because of the new-tech LCDs around the corner. But I'm very happy with this monitor. The image consistency is much better than the Samsung 226BW (x2) I had briefly.
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[B0b]

yeah the 226BW is a TN panel (18bit).. so the S-PVA panel (24bit) of the 2407 is going to shine against them

[Max]

[fruity_loops]

Lookin' good!

Did you enjoy the new MGS trailer as much as I did?

[Max]

Definately,...the whole design of the game is amazing. I love it