[g.owen]

CRITS., QUESTIONS, AND SUGGESTIONS WELCOMED ON ANYTHING HERE OR IN THE COMIC!!!

Here is a piece from part 2. You can see all of the comic at http://home.windstream.net/themessiah

I have posted progress images at another forum. Someone asked kindly. I obliged. I have been working on this project for about three years now, and so I have mountains of progress images � on my hard drive and on paper. But before doing that, I will finish part 3 � �Light from the Mountain�. I should have it up within a week.

Here are some words from the Messiah:
"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."


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I HEAR THUNDER IN THE DESERT.

www.deadcameforth.blogspot.com

[neff]

Which Filter did you use for that Painting-Style ?
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[Ranath]

why can't you post the process here - it would stop the discussion. You posted them at another forum, so why not here?


Otherwise I can't help but to be at loss of word - how could you render for example the face and hands so accurately (with a filter-looking technique) and totally fail to paint boxes that would share the same lighting than your figure? And how could you totally fail to integrate your character with the environment, so that the character seems to be floating in the air? The foot that is resting on the box just gives the whole thing away. That's what I'm compelled to think until I see myself proved wrong.

[Tomasis]

the shoes look quite modern for me from 20th century

[Exoudeous]

and your still going to visit Satan when you die. making a new topic doesn't wash you of your sins child.

P.S. Get thee some more ram, applying filters shouldn't take 3 years
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[g.owen]

I am focused on some other things right now - getting part 3 up. But, within a few weeks I will be glad to post progress images. Many may find it interesting. I have been asked before about these things and do not mind sharing.

But I will not grant requests that are done in a disrespecful manner. Suspicions expressed are OK. But insults will get you no where with me - It is not really my concern to....prove myself to you.

If some one is really interested in progress images, all they have to do is ask politely and I will provide them.

Part 2 is down right now while I am trying to upload part 3. But you can still see part 1 at http://home.windstream.net/themessiah

***and I must say that I agree with you about the shoes...But you are wrong about the lighting. It is accurate.
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[Jimmyjimjim]

[g.owen]

[Exoudeous]

[fruity_loops]

[Ranath]

[g.owen]

This is for Ranath, Jimmyjimjim, and anyone else that may have kindly asked about the process. I had intentions of sharing, but have been a little busy with the holidays and a family tragedy.

I will answer any questions you have. But there are certain people that I will not respond to due to their disrespect. Just as our sin seperates use from God, so your actions have seperated you from a worthy response. But...just as the Lord is faithful to forgive, so must I. All you have to do is ask. I know some people are...the way they are... and this will not satisfy them. But I don't do what I do to please everybody.

As I've said. I pencil draw the characters using reference, scan into a computer, and color/paint them in an art program.My backgrounds are often photo based. For backgrounds, I edit/paint on the photos and apply effect/filter in an effort to integrate it with the pencil work. I sometimes even apply a texture filter to the painting of the characters - I am a texture freak. I mentioned this before, and it is at my blogspot.

I started with the first picture. If you look hard, you may be able to see the little lines from my graph paper on the pencil work. Also, you can see hints of them throughout the work. It is hard to get rid of all the little lines. Sometimes I do not use graph paper and trace the outline to avoid this, but prefer the graph paper - it just makes for great precision that way. I also use miniture models and sets. There are so many details about this project, I could go on and on. My blogspot is suppose to answer much of this. I need to update it to avoid such lengthy posts at forums - who actually reads all this?

Believe or not. Its your choice. Oh yeah, look at part 3. If all that is just photos with a countour filter, where do you think I got the photos?

http://home.windstream.net/themessiah


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[neff]

Perhaps he's right. If you blend the photo and the drawing together, you'll find tiny differences in the details.
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[g.owen]

My friend who posed for me had shorter hair, his nose points out (instead of down - Hebrew nose), and his forehead sticks out too much. So I had to adjust for that. I did not mind showing this picture, because you do not see his face. There is no way I would post his picture here. Nor will I post a picture of my wife (she is my model for the devil) (I change her features as well).

Now, here is a picture of me. I don't care what you punks do with a picture of me, but you can't have one of my loved ones (sorry about the name calling - I am human - besides, we need a little humor here). Anyway, I was the reference for my angels - I'm pretty buff, huh? I am wearing a wig there. I eventually desaturated the angels and made them where you could see thru them a little.

OH YEAH, BEFORE I AM ACCUSED OF TRYING TO SAY I DREW THOSE PICTURES OF the kindgoms, let me explain. They are tweaked photos from the public domain - the sheep on the last page are too. I plan to put all that info at the blogspot ASAP.

edit: picture removed - did not add to our talk here - is there a limit on how many I can put here? ( no time to read all the rules right now)
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[Ranath]

ah, thanks for the process. Maybe you're drawing this, maybe not. If yes, maybe a slight change of brushing style would be needed here as it is confusing a lot of people. You will find the filter look to bother a lot of your clients too, or so they warn you in art schools. Secondly you might want to focus on the foundation technique a bit more as I suggested in the previous comment.


The images themselves show quite a weird workflow actually. I haven't seen a single professional artist yet who would have used such a, pardon me the expression, strange workflow. Faking that workflow would be definitely possible I think, the pencil part could be achieved with a filter. For the paint, just smudge the final image, maybe distort just a slightly so the overlay doesn't fit, run a filter, anything. But I don't really care anymore, I've had my go on these. Do whatever you want, incase you're lying you're just shooting yourself on leg a big time. If you're not, good for you, you have some skills at rendering.

[g.owen]

I have not been to art school. I am not a professional - I am a probation officer by trade. Maybe this explains my strange workflow, as you put it. Here is the deal, I like to draw. So, I made some art. The process, and the art itself, may be unorthadox. I have no clients (except for thefts, drug addicts, child molestors, and violent offenders). So, I am not worried about how clients receive it.

I make art, and I have a story to share. And if you still don't believe me, maybe you just don't want to. Maybe you feel better about yourself by thinking that - when I say "you" I am talking about those that insist on this, inspite of the evidence; or attempt to discredit the evidence. I'm done with this part. If you have questions, feel free to ask. And if you have meaninful feedback, that would be appreciated.

PART 3 IS NOW UP!!! I HAVE ONE MORE TO GO.
http://home.windstream.net/themessiah
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[Jimmyjimjim]

[Exoudeous]

you still arn't showing that you are drawing anything. your drawing process is whats in question here, and you have not yet shown one sketch or unfinished pencil.

If you are actually drawing this stuff, why is it such a tough task to show us these things?
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[octavian]

[gLitterbug]

[g.owen]

[eyewoo]

The actual process of drawing... Your drawings appear to be mainly traced with modifictions. In many, if not most professional illustrator's opinons tracing is not a sin, it is a useful tool used to speed up a process and meet a deadline. Even the venerable Spooge will probably admit to doing some tracing when it is appropriate to the process. The great American artist, Thomas Eakins used tracing.

The problem here seems to be that you are trying to give the impression that your drawings are freehand using reference rather than tracings from reference with modifictions. I think that is what is bringing the hairs up on the backs of the necks of many.
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[g.owen]

I will soon post some drawings that have not been touched up in my art program. So, you will be able to see all the little smudges and such - you will even be able to see the graph paper lines. And I suspect that there will be some that are still not satisfied. I have explained much here. It does not seem that people read what I post and just continue with the accusations...as if I am cheating. As I have said, I do not really NEED to prove myself. But, I do think I should respond so that artists will take the work seriously and perhaps give me some meaningful feedback.

I am starting to suspect that maybe some people are reacting to the subject matter. I do know that some people become hostile when you talk politics or relegion. This being a religious work, maybe that is fueling some of this. Maybe it is the combination of the artistic concerns about cheating and the religion thing....I don't know.

"When politics and religion mix, there is a whirlwind." - a line from Dune

What do you have when art and religion mix? Just a thought.
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[Ranath]

[g.owen]

[quote="Ranath"]
...The attitude you are receiving is due to your technique, your arrogant response to doubts ("I don't need to prove anything to you, you don't understand my talent etc." without actually showing any proof for long time). You brush away critiques such as those I have already given...
[quote]

I am glad that you are a Christian. But don't say that I said something I did not. I never said "you don't understand my talent". You put that in quotes, as if I said it. I did not. That would be a stupid thing to say.

And I do not brush away ciritiques. I take them in. It helps me improve things. This whole thing here is something that I learn from. Everyone's responses here reflect what others will think. So, I adjust things to address that. Not only am I learning how to make the art better, I am learning how to present it - which is very important. And I have the people here to thank for that.

What I have learned here so far is that I should inform the viewer of the method up front, and provide some sort of proof that the art is more than JUST photo manipulations. Then, they can view the art for what it is without jumping to the inaccurate conclusion that I am cheating. Maybe I can have a title page that explains things and provides some pencil work, or something like that.

And about what you call "arrogant response", what do you expect when people try to insult me? I did not say crude things back. But these things work out. It stirred people up and motivated them to point out the things that I NEEDED TO HEAR. And speaking of stirring people up, the religious artworks of the past....oh, nevermind.
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[octavian]

[g.owen]

Now that was kinda funny. You know Octavian, I am starting to like you. And I realize that no one has called me a "cheat". Those were my words, but that is what we have been talking about. It would be cheating to present photos and say, "look what I painted".

And the "punk" quote...you did not add the rest. I was joking and indicated that. I really don't mind a little smack talk. But we should joke and laugh some as well. I don't know if you meant that post to be a joke....but it was a little funny.

Pencil work coming soon. Can't now, I am at work. Better get off here. My co-workers give me the stink eye when I do this.
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[octavian]

OK dude.

[g.owen]

Ok. Here is some pencil work I scanned in and uploaded.
First picture group is some old samples: #1 - I started out on this type of graph paper; but it took way too much time to remove the lines with my corel 9. ; that is a picture of me; I did that one over; a better version is at my blogspot: www.temptthemessiah.blogspot.com #2 - so, I tried an approach where I blanked out part of the graph paper and drew in the part that did not have the lines. #3 - for this approach, I drew the outline on graph paper with the blue lines, which a photo copier will not pick up; I photo copy the drawing - mainly outlines; I then take the photo copied picture (blue lines gone) and draw in the rest of the picture. #4 Eventually went with the yellow graph paper because my scanner only picks up a little of that (scanners do not behave like copy machines) #5 another old picture that is on yellow graph paper. ***can't see the yellow line on #'s 4 and 5, but they are there

I look at the reference photo that has been printed on graph paper, and I draw it on graph paper. The numbering there helped me with alignment while I drew. Eventually, I was practiced enough to not need the numbering.




Second picture is from part 1. You guys loved that part where the devil was crawling, so here is the picture. Notice the highlights and textures. I love textures. When I have a high resolution reference photo, I like to really work on the details. I always get the finer details down once it is in my art program though.




The third drawing is from Part 2. Sometimes, because my reference picture is low resolution and bad image quality, I could not draw much detail. So I work on that once the drawing is in my corel 9. I did this one on blue line graph paper just to see if it did better than the yellow line one....I don't think it did.



And here is another.


And another. I could go all day. You should be able to see the pencil lines in the eyebrows and clothing.


So, if all this came from a filter, my name must be "filter" . I usually draw big. Even if the final picture is going to be...say 3x3 inches, I will draw it 9x9. Then, when you shrink it down, it looks very realistic. I have traced the outline on some pictures, but I prefer this method. It seems like a more free approach, more precise, or something. I also think this method is better training for your mind, I don't know. Anyway, there you have it.

So, what do you people think about my title page idea? I can put together a collage of images that shows some pencil work and indicates the process of the backgrounds, or something. That way, people know what's up and will not suspect that I am cheating.

It may be a while before I can talk back. I am going to be busy printing all this off for my bible study group...we have a lot to pray about. Actually I have some family matters to attend. And if you still don't believe me, come visit me and I'll rub your face with the paper so that the pencil smudges on it.
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[Exoudeous]

The other thing I am seeing is that your "work" doesn't seem to match up. some things look way better then others

like your last 2 images, the the one showing 1 eye looks like a complete turd compared to the one before it. same with the womans face where she is crawling

Its as if you are tracing stuff and then drawing in the parts you need changed, and those parts look really obvious.

Got any work in progress shots of your pencils? all you have shown is finished pencils.
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