[Freebooter]

I found this aquarell painting I made about two years ago and I still think it's one of my best works so far. Not for the quality of the brushwork but for the sense of motion and suspense.


So I decided to re-make this picture with just minor tweaking. My understanding of anatomy has come a long way since I painted this.

So this is the initial sketch that one might still consider a speedpainting, with some adjustment of curves and that silly red dot added before saved in jpg format.



I'm still thinking about the clothing and whether or not I'll do it in colour and with/without background, so I'm open to suggestions.

[Freebooter]

More faithful version. Still very WIP.


Edit:
New version added.

[Freebooter]

This has changed a bit since I started, but I'm learning new things all the time. About a time for me to do something 'finished' so I won't allow myself to quit painting this for a some time. But today's work is over (couple of speedpaintings and this character) and time to go to bed.

[Mikko K]

I don't want to bring down the heated conversations here, but the last one is looking pretty good! If I try to look at them objectively, the wc sketch still has the most tension, probably because the exaggerated anatomy supports the movement.

[scallywag]

This is harsh maybe... but the first one you posted is by far an away the best. The last one is tighter, yes, but you've completely lost the dynamism (is that a word?).

I don't know what your workflow is but maybe you might consider sticking closer to the initial sketch as you rework?

[jinnseng]

I agree with the other comments. I think the intial version is the best of what you've shown. Your old piece had a nice flow and energy to it because of the overall looseness and unrefined look to it. The lateast piece is cleaner, but it isn't as interesting to look at for me.

[Freebooter]

Ok guys, I do have to admit that I'm not a fan of filling things up with clean details either and you're all very right. But one of the main points for me to re-make this picture was to finally do something "finished", which to me usually means soulless and over-refined, but I'm afraid that most would-be employers prefer eyecandy over loose and powerful sketches. So spite all the all-so-true criticism here I am going to finish this eye-syrup I've already grown to dislike. Maybe I'll later do another re-make more true to original picture and to me in the sense of dynamics and looser brushwork.

Thanks for real comments.

[Freebooter]

Happy? This went to Speedpainting thread too.

[Duracel]

[Mikko K]

There are other things to consider as well. You guys like the first one, that's ok and I agree to a certain point. But could you do a 3d-model out of that anatomy?

The speedpainting masturbation is good for a while, but professionally I think it's neccessary to learn how to include as much of the energy in a "finished" painting. After all, when you show a sketch like the first one, your client says "cool, now can you do that like Mullins?". Go on bro, this is the kind of practice you need.

[Freebooter]

Duracel, I do understand your point but take a closer look at the WC ninja and you'll see that in three-dimensional way it's completely shitty. Some might considers the propotions exaggerated in a good way but the way I see it they're just plain wrong. Can you honestly say that you're not fooled by the "good line" and "flow" on the expense of good anatomy and forms? I promise you that overpaint on WC piece would look plain silly, trust me on this one.

[Matthew]

Not sure I am anyone who should do overpaints nowadays with me getting more abstract and also with me staying away from digital.
Anyway, I thought I could add to here cause I think you are coming along nicely with that detailed version above freebooter, just some things which depends on what you are looking for aswell.

I don't think there can be too many directions, its just the matter of how to make it work which is the difficult part.
oh well a quick overpaint here beneath.

Keep up the good work Freebooter I think you have improved lately.


later
Matthew

[seth1]

I think motion lines would work good in this piece?

[octavian]

Freebooter. You've pulled me out from hiding to comment on this.

I think your last one is really great. I understand the desire to finish your work more so that prospective employers can see how far you can go. However, the reason the last one is so appealing to me is it really has that sense of dread I think you were shooting for. The action is superb as well. I think it blows away the other three.

Now as far as detailing, it has been often said that good artists detail the parts that they want to draw your eye to, and leave others loose and unattended to give a sense of motion etc. have you seen daryl Mandryk's work? aka black arts? I think he might be a good source of inspiration because he doesn't always "super detail" his work, yet it still feels finished. Comprede?

Just my two cents. I hope it helps.

I personally love your sketches dogg.

[Duracel]

I don't say take the first one as it is, but the dynamic part works because of the included "rhythm" in drawing in it.

So do not ignore, why the first one is appealing some of us more, try to understand "why". And the mentioned "rhythm" is one reason.

So i would suggest, try to combine such "flow of lines" with a well done anatomy, instead of give a damn shit about rhythm and take just a well done anatomy. You can have both, there is no need to chose one way.
This is what separates the best artists from the 'only' good ones, the best can bring all things working together in one picture.
_________________
Lars G�tze

www.duracel.de Gallery

Detailling a speedpainting is nothing but speedpainting in detail.

[Mikko K]

Duracel, you hit the nail in my forehead there!

[Matthew]

I actually disagree and not just because of the agree to disagree part.

The first one and that second speedpainting sure has rhytm but then ask yourself again if a real world samurai with armor would bend that way. Maybe sounds strange when I make a call to debate these kind of things knowing that I have been looking a lot for rhytm in my works but there is sometimes an unnecessary amount of dynamic and rhytm in some works I have seen. Just look at those crooked hands in comics, I believe the right word for it is exaggeration.
Sometimes u can make a character dance with just adding stuff around the character, just look at some older paintings with the cloth and such and u will know what I mean.
Also depends on what type of character the character is and what the situation is that he is in.

Eventhough the detailed version has some flaws it looks to me like he is going to take a step back and change his war pose and this was what I made more obviuos in my overpaint (I think anyway so maybe u guys disagree) and I changed the composition a bit and made him more balanced backwards.

Keep noodling on this one and we will see what becomes of it Freebooter.
some of my rambling, I better go hide
have a nice day y'all
Matthew

[Freebooter]

Thanks for all you guys! You made this drawing session very fruitful (altough it doesn't show up in the following picture). I learned a lot from you guys, at least to take critic better if not anything else.

Duracel, what you told me got me really thinking: if some of the people here believe that I might not be 'only good' if I work hard enough and think I'm worth such a critic perhaps I do have a chance to make career as an artist some day.

Matthew, I finally have some time to draw. The next three years or so I'm gonna be studying in University of Art and Design so you might expect even faster improvement. I hope it all pays off someday.

Octavian, damn I'm proud that you said that. I really digged your work when you still posted and somehow thought that we shared passion for ninjas and what not. I usually don't get involved with much details, the overall mood usually does it for me. But then again if I never do any detailed pics I can't make it as a concept artist. I'll check out Mandryk.

Mikko K, I hope one day I can draw characters as well as you can. (check out his unbelievable skillz: http://www.artbymikko.com/inhumanxerox/temp/drugged.jpg )


Ghehe and finally my Scifi-non-science Samurai-ninja-thingy who looks like he's dancing on a hot coals.


The pursuit for the best running ninja has just begun!

[Mikko K]

[Affected]

One thing about this more refined samurai is that his left leg is somewhat odd... I think the foreshortening isn't quite panning out, it looks to me like his thigh is too long. And I'm not sure if he's lunging forward or spinning around?

[igino]

I still think ninjaknowsnofear.jpg is the best. it just rocks! in every single way! keep it up!

[Freebooter]

Affected, he's supposed to be running but it doesn't really look that. My bad.

igino, thanks a lot. I'm your big fan so this means a lot to me.

[VelkroBoy]

I think the last Speed Painting is the absolute best. The others look like amateur Magic the Gathering Art Work. I think that the crazy spped seperates your work from the norm. I do not think you should touch that piece one moment longer. Hit you in the head? Someone needs to hit you in the head to stop you from going to far. All great artists desire perfection. It takes alot of screaming voices to tell you to shut the fuck up. I am one of them. So shut the fuck up (in the kindest way). Your secondary speed painting is awesome. There, that is all you need. However If you combined the first and the second? Throw the arm over the leg and the other arm behind the back more. So maybe you shouldn't shut up but maybe you should whisper no?