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Topic : "Let's talk about money" |
oDD
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 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:10 pm |
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We had discussions about talent, how to get into gaming industry, we even talked few times about how to get chicks. I would like to ask you guys about your views on managing your wealth etc. In my life I learned few things so far on this subject like
1. You can be the greatest artist in the world yet you can be poor and unknow because managing your career is a seperate skill. So I find thinking in terms "I will draw all day every day and everything else will work out by it self" flawed. That is why there are people who may be poor artist but can live from doing their art while better artist don't get any real money and wonder why life is so cruel and unfair.
2. spooge said it once and i read it in a book too (George S. Clason "Richest man in babylon") that you should save 10% of all money you earn. This cash should be used only when you really need it. It gives you some independence, because if your employe will know you got problems with money he might use it against you, like give you a shitty assigment for little cash.
3. spend less then you earn. Sounds reasonable.
4. instead of spending money on some dumb stuff like the biggest TV you can find or the newest porsche, You should invest, so that your earned money will work for you and bring you even more money ( Kiyosaki "Rich Dad Poor Dad")
When i think about my future - lets say - i know i want a house and i want to be able to support myself and family but i don't have a real plan. I don't know anything about investing. I got a job that pays preety well but still i want more. I hope there are some dudes here who are concerned about this part of their lives and are willing to share their thoughts. Plus all You older fellas who got good few years of work under their belts: what mistakes you made ? what good decisions you took ? Can you Be a Rich artist without canning your poop ? Do i really have to go into real estate investing ? Why chicks don't dig artists ? 
I can't wait to see some imput from all of you. thanks.
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Drunken Monkey
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:16 pm |
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You mention investing. I'd say learn about investing. Don't become a daytrader, unless you have nerves of steel, arent suicidal, like risk, and ready to lose everthing 3-4 times. But do find good mutual funds. Its smart and relatively safe.
Hell invest some in SBUX if you know nothing about stock market and want to get into it. With SBUX long term you can't go wrong.
Learn about trailing stops, trend lines. Its really simple stuff. If you want more advanced stuff, msg me.
If you got a ballsack and some cash you wont miss buy some BCON right now. > $1.2 end of the month. I am in with %20 of all i have since .78 But if it falls tomorrow, i am already out with nice profit due to trailing stop.
I started with just $3k. If i lost it i wouldn't feel it. I lost it 3 times over. Total bust from 3k to like $700. But never owed any short interest, thank god. Learned all i could about the stocks. Cought TSIC from 2 to 4.5, MHCA from 20 to 27 (overnight), TASR from 17 to 22 (overnight). Its nice having free money. Definetly learn about investing.
I know this stuff isn't for everyone. Its involved. Its nerve wracking for some people. But its working for me. So there... my .02c
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cheney
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:02 am |
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Real estate is safer and typically brings a greater return. The downside is that it requires a massive principle to get started and consumes ALL your time at first just to keep your head above water. Real estate is where people with some good business sense can become filthy rich, but the time constraints will destroy any hope of a business future.
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Drew
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:57 am |
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| oDD wrote: |
4. instead of spending money on some dumb stuff like the biggest TV you can find or the newest porsche, You should invest, so that your earned money will work for you and bring you even more money ( Kiyosaki "Rich Dad Poor Dad") |
I'm not saying that everything the guy says is wrong, but I did some research on Kiyosaki and found out a few things. First of all, Rich Dad doesn't exist. Second, Kiyosaki's real esate is a handful of rental houses. Not bad, but hardly enough to retire on and consider yourself rich. You can google more info pretty easily. What's most annoying about it is that now, after reading several of his books, I have to seperate the decent advice from the BS.
Back to the business at hand, though. I have pretty high financial goals, and I don't think it's likely I'll reach them by working as a freelance animator. I'm looking towards investing in stocks and fixing up houses. The latter is a lot of work and risk, but the profit can be quite large.
I also think it's important to set financial goals. People rarely accidentally walk into large amounts of money. They have to plan and work for it. Since my goal is so high, I'll have to plan carefully and take many risks. We'll see how it goes! |
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oDD
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:19 am |
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So it's either investing or real estate. There are two problems with this, you spend time doing bussines instead of doing art plus you need to be devoted to it. I don't care about stock market nor real estate. If i don't care about something i will try to keep myself away from it. I think my mindset would have bad influence on my bussines. On the other hand you guys make it sound like it's easy...
I was wondering do you see a chance for an artist to do art and be rich. Maybe some small studio with few employes and a guy that is responsible for all the paper work and all you do is art and money ?
The ideal situation would be earnying nice money from art and giving your earnings to some dude who would multiply it and then give it back.
Drunken Monkey: thanks for your offer.
Drew: Yeah i'm aware about Kiyosakis BS. I really didn't likedthat book very much, yet i find that idea interesting.
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ceenda
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:38 pm |
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| cheney wrote: |
| Real estate is safer and typically brings a greater return. The downside is that it requires a massive principle to get started and consumes ALL your time at first just to keep your head above water. Real estate is where people with some good business sense can become filthy rich, but the time constraints will destroy any hope of a business future. |
Sorry to go off-topic for a sec, but anyone interested in Real Estate should watch the film "Glengarry Glen Ross", with Kev Spacey, Jack Lemon, Al Pacino and Ed Harris. Brilliant film, pretty heart-rending in places too.
"It's the leads, the leads, this whole thing is about the leads!!!"
But back on topic...
About 10 years ago I was totally set on being an artist professionally. I had it all planned out. I had good school grades in art and planned to take up Illustration at Art College.
In the Summer before Art College started, I began to panic about careers. Basically, when everyone around you says that it's hard to get a paying career in art (regardless of evidence or fact) it begins to affect your judgement a bit. So I ended up switching into BSc Computer Sciences at, literally, the very last minute ("clearing").
So, 10 years on, I have a job that pays well, puts aside finances into a large , reasonably secure pension fund and gets me discounts in a large number of random restaraunts (which I'll never bother going to).
I still have time for art, but it's not the fulfillment of what I had hoped to do many years ago. At 25, I guess I'm still relatively young, but a career tends to be like the Dark Side of the Force after a while.
"It... is too late... for me..."
Hahaha, but seriously, even if you embark on a career, does that necessarily mean that the family has to go with it? imo, far too many people I know at my age are jumping into marriage and family life. I'm still keeping my options open, but don't ever put the lid on something like an artistic career.
If I remember, Eyewoo started art professionaly a fair while after a different career. Though I could be wrong about that, and Phil is welcome to slap me down like a Ho.  |
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eyewoo
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:19 pm |
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 .. no slap down. Tis true. i graduated from art school and immediately began making a living doing other things... primarily because I had a problem with the idea that making a living off my art would adversly affect my art. I went to a "fine art" school. 
Then, 35 years later, I decided making money with my art would be quite cool, so I spent about a year seriously putting together a portfolio that might capture an agent's interest. It worked and acrtually got five agents looking me over. I chose the one that I liked best and have been working non-stop ever since. It ain't fine art, but it does pay well and I'm still freelancing...
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goldenavatar0
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:49 pm |
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I'm Still learning the whole art thing myself, but it's not been particulalrly overwhelming. It just requires alot of time invested into developing my skills. However, it's been the whole developing a strategy to get those developing skills to work for me that's been a bit energy draining & time consuming. I'm already hard at work on that, but I'm a bit curious about something form the older art folks. If you could pass along some critical advice to the younger/inexperienced artists creeping up on your coat tails, what would it be?
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eyewoo
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:29 am |
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If I were going to rank the qualities that make for financial success as an artist they would go -- from most important on down: persistance, attitude, talent
My ranking for personal art would be: have fun and be true to yourself, attitude, talent.
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Drew
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:36 pm |
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| oDD wrote: |
| So it's either investing or real estate. There are two problems with this, you spend time doing bussines instead of doing art plus you need to be devoted to it. I don't care about stock market nor real estate. If i don't care about something i will try to keep myself away from it. I think my mindset would have bad influence on my bussines. On the other hand you guys make it sound like it's easy... |
No, mate, I don't think it's easy at all. But after living the past decade in poverty, stocks and real estate and all that stuff I didn't care about has started to sound really damn interesting. I don't think I'll have to be passionate about the stock market to make money in it. I'll just have to learn and pay attention to my money, which is more than most people bother with. |
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watmough
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:38 pm |
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| eyewoo,you're my hero! |
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eyewoo
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:57 am |
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[blush] ...40 years freelancing in various careers does give one some understanding... [/blush]
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balistic
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:40 am |
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| eyewoo wrote: |
| [blush] ...40 years freelancing in various careers does give one some understanding... [/blush] |
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eyewoo
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Godwin
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eyewoo
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Drew
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:56 am |
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| Godwin wrote: |
| What if you don't care about being rich to begin with? |
You'll still have to worry about money. One of the main reasons that I want to be well off is so that when I have financial trouble, I'll still have enough money to take care of the basics. As I mentioned before, I've been poor for years. When money was tight, I had to worry about paying the rent, I had to eat the cheapest food I could find, and I've had services cut off because I haven't been able to pay for them.
Being poor sucks.
If I'm well off, I'll still worry about money. I'll still have financial difficulty. But instead of worrying about paying the rent when money is tight, I'll just cut back on something that I don't need to save some cash. I'll keep my old computer for a while, or take a less expensive vacation that year. I don't need the stress of worrying about feeding myself. I can do better than that, so I will.
But that's a bit off the point, which is that regardless of the amount of money you make, you'll have to tend to it. So you might as well make a little bit more to make your life a bit easier. |
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Yarik
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:02 am |
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What I do:
1) Save 15% of all my paychecks.
2) Use a credit card only for purshases I can pay off THAT second to build credit. I never try to buy more then I can pay off.
3) Invest in stocks or real estate. I use sharebuilder. No minimum amount of $ and you need to pick stocks that you think will do good over time not how good they will do in 1 week or 1 day.
4) Stop buying high priced items. If there is a toothbrush for 2.50 and one for $.65 by the cheaper ones.
Same goes for toothpaste, deoderant, food
5) Don't buy new stuff unless you depend on it in a serious way. Do you really need that new HL2 or that New GFX card or that new head set when what you have does just fine?
6) Buy produce from the store and eat at home as much as possible. Fast food maybe fast but $3 for a bun, a patty, slice of lettuce and drop of ketchup is really worth it? Is paying $1.30 for a medium cup of soda at McD's really worth it when you can get a 2 liter soda for $1.19?
7) Is that $3.50 cup of Starbucks really worth it? Why don't you buy yourself a pack of coffee for $6 some milk for $2 a gall and some sugar for $3 a pack and you will basically have the same coffee for around $.40-.50
a cup.
$3.50 starbucks for 5 days (each morning) = 17.50 a week = $70 a month
$55 cell phone subscription a month, is it REALLY that important? Do you really need that plan?
$4.00 McDonalds lunch 3x a week = $12 a week or = $48
Dude, these small things all add up dramatically. You just can't see it atm. Add up all your expenses.
A month ago I was doing nearly the same thing. And I wasted @ or around $200 a month on this shit. And I don't earn that much too. Now I cut back dramatically and now waste around $45 a month on needed stuff. The other 150 I invest and accumalate for an emergency.
Think about it all,
that $.50 to $2.00 savings on all the products you buy can really go along way. |
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Drunken Monkey
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:05 am |
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Money is a good thing. Stop thinking that its going to take away from your art... its going to make it easier. Unless you are into the whole "i suffer for my art" thing, and you want to induce some artificial pain. Best commercial artists are also great businessmen, almost without exception.
P.S.
I hope someone bought some BCON when i suggested, was up 19% at 10:30 today  , don't enter now.
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Chruser
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:56 am |
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Why not find a third-world communist country with a high demand for painters wishing to work all day for food?
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gLitterbug
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:53 am |
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Drew is right I�d think. I personally doubt you really have to go into real estate or anything like that, but there are some simple things you can do that saves you up money for your age or times of trouble. Saying that, I myself don�t really do anything like that yet, but I still got my parents as supporters and if I would not I`d live in a cardboard box right now(or at least not be freelancing but rather have a "real" job).
I understand what Yarik tries to say with keeping the unecessary costs down, but if you go overboard with that (at least if you don�t need to do it due to current financial trouble) it can deteriorate your quality of life alot. I know myself that I get into a "save up all the money you can by not buying stuff" mentality alot. Even if I have some cash on my bank account I always try to keep a nice part of it for whatever. In the end all that does is make me feel bad more of the time than not. Because honestly, buying stuff you want feels good and the cost is often warranted simply not by the worth of the actual product, but the positive energy you get out of the fact that you are able to also get you some luxury.
But since I don�t have to life off my own income yet, feel free to ignore what I just said. |
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Impaler
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:04 am |
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| Biggie Smalls (Notorious B.I.G.) wrote: |
| Mo' money, mo' problems. |
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balistic
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:59 pm |
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| gLitterbug wrote: |
I understand what Yarik tries to say with keeping the unecessary costs down, but if you go overboard with that (at least if you don�t need to do it due to current financial trouble) it can deteriorate your quality of life alot. I know myself that I get into a "save up all the money you can by not buying stuff" mentality alot. Even if I have some cash on my bank account I always try to keep a nice part of it for whatever. In the end all that does is make me feel bad more of the time than not. Because honestly, buying stuff you want feels good and the cost is often warranted simply not by the worth of the actual product, but the positive energy you get out of the fact that you are able to also get you some luxury.
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I definitely feel where you're coming from here, to a certain extent. I live within my means, but at the same time, I have to reward myself once in a while. Buy some nice clothes or a $60 steak dinner or something. There's part of the rebelious artistic character that's prone to shunning consumerism outright, but as long as you're spending money on something that will last (either physically or emotionally), and it makes you feel better about yourself, I don't see any harm in spending money on frivolous shit from time to time. Problems only arise when you try to make your whole lifestyle like that . . . building a house of gold on a foundation of plastic.
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