[jfrancis]

I'm still low on the learning curve for digital painting but I'm trying to come up with a painting technique to "get me started" in Painter - so I can wory more on drawing and color issues, and less on the mechanics of painting.

In Photoshop, I either work with a hard round brush on low (but fixed) opacity and build up color as needed, or I lay in colors in adjacent areas and "attack the border" between the two as needed by painting one color into the other using a round brush with opacity set to pen pressure.

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What's your basic Photoshop method?
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And what's your basic Painter method, also? With Painter I'm trying to use a brush as a blender with the "bleed resaturation" trick lunatique talks about ... http://www.3dtotal.com/team/tutorials/lunatique/painter_tips.asp ... but I seem to pick up the paper color as a pigment, or constantly push the colors around without blending them much. I can't seem to get the hang of the Painter thing.

What's your basic "workhorse" setting for Painter?
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Speedie in Photoshop

[Kendeathwalker]

I wish people would respond to this thread.. I to am very curious about the mechanics in Painter. Ive asked around alot but it seems that everyone just does their own thing. I use the exact same photoshop technique that you do, But im finding most of my photoshop stuff looks a bit artifical.. Ive recently experiemented with customizing brushes giving them diff shapes/textures etc.. That gives a little bit more of a traditional look but not much..
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[faB]

Hmmm I am also learning a lot but the funny thing for me it was a little bit the other ways around. To me, Wacom painting meant Painter, simply because I got Painter Classic with the tablet, and it was months before I realised Photoshop had any support for it (maybe PS 5 didnt support the tablet stylus, dont remember).

I remember I first struggled with Painter Classic to get finer details, but I loved how the paper showed through because it added a lot of texture to things.

Those are the brushes I use, I have done little experimenting I'm using most of them as is, I NEVER change the opacity in Painter, I feel Painter's strength is in how it uses your stylus pressure.

Painter Classic:

Pencils : sketching
Oil Pastel : this is the king of Painter brushes for me, I like the triangular shape, with careful setting of resaturation you can get a little oil paint effect, and with grain set higher you can use pressure to build values
Sable Tip : fine details, low opacity with low pressure
Scratchboard tools: fine details, but more Photoshop-ish, this one gets opaque faster
Water color: I did I suppose whats called 'washes' with this, I found it useful sometimes to make everything a bit colder by using a very large brush and applying very very little pressure to avoid brush marks and sweeping over everything with a bluey colour, also with other brown for example, to bring all values down a little bit, dont forget to 'dry' image after use
PaletteKnife > Fine Dry Brush : this would be your Smudge tool, only 10 times better.
Sharp Chalk : at large brush size (up to 1cm wide) I use it on low pressure to add paper grain, add texture , but I dont have real 'artistic' control on that so used it rarely
Soft Chalk : this one is nice on very low pressure to slowly mix in a lighter/dark colour, if you press more, you get 'blobs'. It has a clinical, photoshop airbrush appearance, so use wisely.. at 100% size it has a graininess even at 100% grain, but it all smoothes down if you work at 200% size
Brush > Small Fine Wash : very nice for building up like Soft Chalk, but less clinical, and not as grainy as Sharp Chalk, not as sensible to paper, I use this one on low pressure, doing a lot of small circles with the pen, building up until values I get what I want then chaning the hue/saturation/ lightness and going over it again,..

I did almost all of THIS in 2002 with Small Fine Wash. Smoke was done with a larger size brush, skin etc same thing, this is 50% original, so when you reduce the little grain on the boundary of small fine wash brush disappears. Spider, lips, eyes, signing, done with Sable Tip. I think I did the whole image with just those two brushes.

On this texture (copy of one of Brom's painting backgrounds), I used various Paper textures, Sable Tip for fine cracks, various Chalks (larger/sharper ones), Scratchboard Rake, and Small Bleach.

this old SP is all Oil Pastel + pressure, I think I did Brush Tracking and press HARD so I get a less sensible pen and can build up better, and use the Oil Pastel on the background color to smooth things, a little Sable Tip in the hair

this more smoothed one I think was just Oil Pastel and low pressure for blending between various areas, all details are Sable Tip.

Painter Classic 's Oil Paint brush never really worked for me.

Painter:

In Painter 6 & 7 I struggled to get the same feel that I had with Painter Classic, especially the Paper texture. I still prefer Classic for quick works. Some Brushes with low resaturation work a little bit like Classic's Fine Dry Brush. Round Camelhair has replaced my use of Sable Tip.

I find it hard to blend without loosing the little form I manage to get , so I prefer to just use pressure for blending and leave some grain or marks there.

[jfrancis]

[monjo]

I have found that the best way by far to blend colors in Painter is to use the liquid/ just add water brush tool at between 15 & 25% sometimes lower. It doesn't push the paint around and you can achieve perfect blends with just a bit of practice and experimentation. It's the closest thing to blending like actual oils that I've found. Give it a try I think You will be very pleased with the results.

[jfrancis]

I've drifted away from the "low but fixed" opacity in PS thing, and now do everything with pen-pressure opacity in Photoshop.

Here's a link to my apprach for Painting in Photoshop

...and I can get fairly "painterly" with it


...and I'm still in the market for more opinions on how to use Painter IX

I'm looking for a "workhorse" technique that I can settle in with for a while.

I've tried the suggestions above, but I keep feeling I either get not enough blending, or too much smoothing. I can't seem to find a happy medium.

If anyone wants to show a dab of color being pushed into another one, that would be very helpful.

[eyewoo]

Just use Photoshop...

For painting I mostly use brushes with fixed size and preasure sensitive opacity, For drawing, its fixed low opacity and preasure sensitive size.

I also use the selection tool a lot along with quick mask in conjunction with various adjustment tools.

Here's a link to a tutorial that demos my basic approach for realistic work.
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[jfrancis]

I get along okay in Photoshop.

I do wish photoshop had the non-destructive canvas rotation option that Painter has. It's convenient when you want to rotate the page to more convenient angles for certain strokes.

I tried seeing if the canvas could be used as a "smart object" in CS2 but it was no go. When you try to edit the contents of a smart object (ie Paint on it) you have to work on it in its original unrotated position.

I would like a better handle on Painter.

[V Shane]

This is probably the most painterly thing I have done this year so far. It was done in Painter 9 (I've been using painter since 6 came out) and was done with my workhorse tools: Pallette Knife (loaded and not), Pen tool, Grainy Blender, Sargent Brush (slightly modified), Van Gogh (not auto Van Gogh), and most of Don Seegmillers brushes.




Last year I have been laying down paint with Van Gogh and blending exclusivly with the pallette knives, then using the grainy blender. (and variations thereof) This piece is unfinished as I have yet to find time to continue, I hope it shows a little bit of process, its not the best "show all" but its what I have:



Just as a side note, for brush uses I have knowledge of regular brushes and knew the effect I wanted after painting in traditional oils for 15 years. Sometimes brushes like "Chalk" or Oil pastel is more painterly than the Oil brushes.
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[ceenda]

I really wish Photoshop had an option to apply color in a less 'linear' way. Oh, and before the matte painters start screaming blue murder at me, I mean as an option in Brush controls. It's possible to use Color Variability as part of the brush flow, but not per complete brushstroke.

If you're looking for some good Painter tutorials with some great info on technique, the following are in my 'leeeettle leeeeezt'.

http://www.mattiassnygg.com/tutorials/tut1.htm
http://www.dccdesigner.com/Htm/Tutorials/Canhead.htm

Anyway, the brushes I tend to use in Painter are:

Variable Flat Brush - Opacity isn't connected to stylus pressure by default, so I usually set that in the Brush Options. This is one of my favourite brushes as it's easy to use it for strong, bold strokes, and lightly as almost a kind of blender.

Loaded Palette Knife - Great for nice, sharp, expressive shapes. Also useful as a blender, but there's a seperate Palette Knife variant for just blending.

Square Chalk - Great for adding in surface texture and details. Try creating another layer and laying down textures on that. When you do the texturing on another layer, you can cut back into it with an eraser or lassoo selection for some interesting effects. Also, try setting the layer to Multiply etc. for interesting effects which preserve the detail underneath the layer.

Just Add Water - One of the water blender variants which has already been explained nicely above by monjo.

Airbrush - The "Digital Airbrush" is good for both large areas and small details. It's pretty much identical to a Soft Round Brush in Photoshop with 'Flow' activated.

The Color Engine In Painter - I think an area where alot of people come unstuck in Painter is that using some low-opacity brushes in Painter tends to create muddy colors that lack saturation. Painter doesn't blend underlying colors linearly like photoshop, even when using brushes like the Airbrush.

Oh, and the Don Seegmiller book "Digital Painting and Character Design" is a really nice book. I have the original edition which is specifically for Corel Painter, but he released a Photoshop version as well, though I haven't read that one.

Anyway, I did this a while back, might be useful? It's done from a reference photo. I'm hoping to set up Camtasia on my PC and maybe record a speedpainting in Corel Painter some time. I tried it once using Painter's scripting function, but it made me cry.

[Godwin]

mmm nice tips. and that ceedna, that example...

anyways I haven't even been using Painter long enough to even know what brushes do what, there're really so many possibilities, and it's definitely helpful to get tips from others instead of getting lost in it all by yourself
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[jfrancis]