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Herman · Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:57 am

I am starting a clothing company and I am going to make my own t-shirts to sell. One of the prints in the upcoming collection features a picture of Marilyn Monroe wich looks like this:

I made that stencil from a photo of her that I found on the internet, is this legal to print and sell?
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Mikko K · member Member # Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Posts: 639

I think it is a violation of the copyright law since someone who has taken the photo has the rights to its use.

Herman · Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:01 pm

But then again, if that was the case no one could make a t-shirt print that looks like Marilyn Monroe who hasn't seen her in real life and can remember what she looked like.
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Heysoos · Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:54 pm

I don't think it would be illegal. Andy Warhol did it.

balistic · Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:02 pm

You're putting a photo taken by someone else on something you plan to profit from. The photographer would have legal grounds to collect compensation for the use of his work, and possibly even damages for your treatment of the photograph.

This assumes that the photographer owns the reproduction rights for that photo. Often times with celebrities, the estate owns the rights, and they tend to be much more active in hunting down misuse of a likeness.
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balistic · Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:03 pm

Herman · Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:14 pm

So you're telling me its impossible to have Marilyn Monroe on a t-shirt?

Edit: Without breaking the law that is.

Edit2: It isn't a photo really, its just something that looks like Marilyn Monroe made from a photo. The point is that it's supposed to look like Marilyn Monroe and that is impossible for me to do without looking at a picture as I haven't seen her for real.
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jfrancis · Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:44 pm

I don't know about the particulars, but in general, everyone has an agent. Even dead celebrities (and their estates) have agents. Even the Hollywood sign has representation. Check it out: http://www.globalicons.com/home.html

http://www.globalicons.com/clients/entertainment-main.html

eyewoo · Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:36 am

[quote="Herman"]So you're telling me its impossible to have Marilyn Monroe on a t-shirt?
quote]

Not at all... all you have to do is pay the licensing fees to use her likeness in a profit making venture.
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Herman · Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:32 am

So what ur telling me is that theese people have got the right to use Marilyn Monroes face, and you cannot use a picture or object resembling it in a t-shirt design or any other product or painting that you might make money by selling without their permission?
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balistic · Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:47 am

Correct.
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Herman · Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:55 am

And there's no way around this, even if the picture doesn't look like an actual photo? You really sure its her face they "own?" and in that case as what, a trademark?

Anyway, anybody have any idea on what those fees could be? I'm guessing It's really expensive, but then again I could be wrong..
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Jimmyjimjim · member Member # Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 459

What's most likely is a "cease and desist" letter. Unless, of course you are making a ton of cash off of selling the merchandise. No one is going to sue for a ton of money if they can't prove they had substantial losses because of what you did.

You are an artist, right? Why don't you do your own picture of MM and base your design off that? In the case a lawyer sends you a nastygram, you can show him a copy of your original work. Lessens the possibility for copyright infringement.

Herman · Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:41 am

Jimmyjimjim: Thats what im trying to ask, would that be illegal to?
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Jimmyjimjim · member Member # Joined: 12 Dec 2002 Posts: 459

In a nutshell-

Public Domain= Legal
Licensed/Artistic Property= Illegal

Would it be legal to make a "Brad Pit" shirt from a publicity photo and sell it? No, but on the other hand, no one is going to try to do anything about it until you make some serious coinage.

On the other hand, making a shirt from a public domain photograph, say, a picture of Abe Lincoln would be fine. My bet would be that there is a team of laywers & licensees that keep the rights to the dearly-departed Miss Monroe's face protected.

If you create a piece of your own art that is not directly referenced from an existing, owned piece of art or photography, I think you'll be fine. From what you stated, you created the art from an existing work. The owner of THAT work could sue you.

Do I think you'll get sued? Doubt it, unless you make a TON of money. Just look at all that Betty Page stuff floating around.

Then again, I notice you're from Sweden. Some countries don't recognize copyright laws (Singapore, for instance). You might be able to give them the big bird for all I know.

Heysoos · Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:22 pm

eyewoo · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:30 am

Who has the pricier lawyer is definitely part of it, but the underlying potential force is whether the owner of the copyright or trademark is persistant and willing to go after infringements such as Herman's. If not, then it is possible over time to hijack a copyright by essentially adding your own spin to it and calling it your own... but, that does not work very well for well known images, copyrights or trademarks... Certainly MM is very well known and will continue to be well known for some time to come...
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Herman · Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:38 pm

Well, i doubt i'll print more than 15 (if i do it at all) t-shirts with this picture of MM. It would be cool though if someone could say for sure if it's illegal or not to, as Jimmyjimjim says, "create a piece of your own art that is not directly referenced from an existing, owned piece of art or photography" and print that?

Thanks for helping me out btw =)
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eyewoo · Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:57 am

With 15 t-shirts, you're not going to have a problem. However, I would say your attitude about copyright law is a bit annoying to anyone who makes their living from creating original artwork and illustrations. You seem to be looking for loopholes that you can take advantage of. Most creative artists do not take kindly to that position... IMHO
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Herman · Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:15 am

eyewoo: No, you don't understand. I just want to do a t-shirt print that looks like Marilyn Monroe, and the only way I can see what she looks like is by looking at pictures of her since she's no longer alive.

This is also why i'm asking if it's still illegal if i paint my own iterputation of her face, it would still look like her but it wont look like an existing photo because then i will do that, if it is illegal to do that too then there's no point and I probably won't do the print at all.
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