[bearsclover]

[retard]

Thanks bearsclover!

[bearsclover]

Thanks to you, retard. You cited some things that I didn't, and you had that very amusing page with Wayne/Light work.

Very entertaining, indeed!

Poor Light. I feel sorry that we're all sort of "ganging up" on you.

You're not that wretched of an artist; it's just that if you are going to have the attitude that you do, you've gotta be a frickin' genius, and I don't think anyone here will mistake you for that.
_________________
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

[Light]

Everything pretty much unfolded as I wrote it would.

Bearsclover feels that because the "herd" tended to agree with her that she is "right". She feels that she "won", and her naive world view has been upheld. She has triumphed (dum da da).

The herd has cast down its sins on the proverbial scapegoat, and sacrificed it. Of course, they'll need to do it again, and again to reassure themselves that they are "right" and that they have really "won".

Here's a nice story I think is fitting for the end of this thread:

I have seen a herd of white goats gather around one black goat. The black goat ran all through the herd causing a ruckass trying to get the herd to disperse but the white goats just got closer and closer together. One large female goat gathered with the rest of the herd and started to charge the black goat.

The rest of the herd then proceeded to ram it, and butt it until the black goat ran off. And, then the large female goat went out to the black goat, which was alone, and frightened, and offered the black goat her breast to suckle. It beckoned the black goat with its large teats, and the lure of sweet fresh milk.

No! The black goat run thruough the herd one last time, and into the woods.

This greatly scared all of the white goats, and they gathered tightly in a circle.

Then the farmer came out of his house with his shotgun, and shot each and every one of the white goats. He told his son to look for the black goat, but it had disappeared into the forest.

-----

Let us hope that all goat stories don't end that way, and most will find greener pastures in lands full of vegetarians.

[bearsclover]

And you are behaving just as I predicted. Complete denial. Complete delusion. We are all the big meanies. You don't deserve any of this reaction. You are the put-upon misunderstood genius who will never get the "respect" that you think you deserve.

This is just hilarious.

[Light]

Bears,

Okay, I'm having a bit of fun. I forgot for the sacrifice to be accepted then I can't have any fun, and must bear the brunt of the sins. Sorry.

But that work really is one of my favorite works. I might even consider that one of my best works today. It certainly is a favorite.

Anyway, does all art have to fit into a nice box?

Now, I have made fun in the past. For example, my offer to give art lessons was in jest. I remember now 2 of the things that brought down the pack on me. First, I think it was EYEWOO who ASKED what he should charge for art lessons. I replied "not much" because that's how I felt.

However, for that everyone disagreed and thought that $200-MUCH MORE!/hour was a fair price.

Anyway, I think I could find a better instructor for that kind of money then Eyewoo. Eyewoo is good. I just wouldn't pay anyone that kind of money.

But, maybe thats the going rate. I don't know. The point is he asked, and I answered. So, I decided to see what would happen if I offered art lessons, and course the herd used it as another chance to attack me and my work. Anyway, its so long ago that I don't really remember the details or care.

Anyway, lets get back to the topic of the thread. This is the work that Paul posted:

A.
http://www.powergfx.com/swordsman.jpg

Here is a figure of mine

B.
http://light1.home.mindspring.com/copies/workinprogress.jpg


Lets see which is better, A or B?

Here are two heads that I painted:

B
http://light1.home.mindspring.com/copies/feathers.jpg
http://light1.home.mindspring.com/copies/intothefuture.jpg

And here is a head as part of the work that I was critiquing

A
http://www.powergfx.com/swordsman.jpg


Which is better A or B?

But really this has nothing to do with PaulJR but it might teach him a good lesson too.

There are always things to be learned, and if Paul can learn a lesson from this one then he will surely learn a valuable lesson.

[bearsclover]

Light.

The delusion never ends.

You could have pulled off a "critique" of, well, almost anyone had you done it in a more diplomatic and low-key manner. My car mechanic could critique someone's art. Anyone can, if they have the right attitude. But you didn't, and you DON'T.

No, I don't think you're "better" than Paul. I really don't.

And I think it's AMAZINGLY TACTLESS that you try to do a "comparison" or Paul's work vs. yours, as if that is going to strengthen your case. It just makes you look like even more like the egotistical, arrogant boor that you (apparently) are.

Paul came here looking for advice. Paul wants to drink up information and get some help. Unlike the thread that I linked to before, Paul was happy to get advice and was willing to listen and to learn. For that if for nothing else, I think Paul is light years better than you. In that thread I linked to, you didn't even acknowledge all the feedback on the painting. Why? Because it was very often negative. So you just pretended it didn't exist. Why did you even post the thing (especially in the "Finished Artwork" area) if you didn't want to get reviews on it?

Paul also doesn't need to be "preached a sermon" (which is what you did) and he doesn't need to hear a bunch of pontificating BS from someone who is is either 1) pulling all our legs or 2) suffering massive delusions of grandeur.

I could almost be amused by your "jokes" (if I believed that it was all they were) but when you start "comparing" yourself to Paul like that, you've crossed some very big line and I don't care if you claim that you were pulling our legs to just get a reaction, it was a TACKY, CRAPPY THING TO DO.

And he's a far, far better artist than you.
_________________
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

[Light]

Bears,

Okay, what was all that about being "good" and proving myself?

Here is an original image of mine:
http://light1.home.mindspring.com/originals/3d/rs_final.jpg

And here is the work I was critiquing (which Bears felt I wasn't qualified to critique):
http://www.powergfx.com/swordsman.jpg

Anyway, Paul can learn a lot by reading this.

Also, if you read that THREAD about my artwork you will find that NOBODY really reviewed my artwork. They only cluttered it up with their trash, and made fun of it.

That's not a critique. A few people were honest, and said they didn't know how to critique such a work.

Anyway, you should read that thread more carefully, and see the kinds of things other people posted about my serious work.

I'm not a performer. I'm an artist. I'm very critical of my work too. I usually give at least 2-3 days before I even come to a conclusion if I like a work or not. I still like this one so I know its one of better ones and its been years since I painted.

[bearsclover]

Light.

You are pathetic.

You can "prove" yourself by showing your work. Just like I "prove" myself by having a website full of artwork. Just like many of us here "prove" ourselves by having websites.

And you did show your work already. One page One of this thread. After much goading, you showed it. That was sufficient.

And as it happens, we were not impressed. Well, I can't speak for others here, but I sure as hell wasn't impressed.

The rest of us don't usually do "comparison" posts (showing our artwork and then the artwork of the person we are critiquing) because we don't need to. We don't want to. It's pathetic. It's tacky. It's rude. And often, it's deluded.

But you did just that.

The "comparison" post on this page was gratuitous and tacky.

I don't know if you are trying to deliberately "crash and burn" on this board, just for kicks (it wouldn't surprise me) but just leave Paul out of it. Leave him out of it. He seems like a nice guy with some potential and a GOOD ATTITUDE and he doesn't need to be shit on by the likes of you for whatever reason.

[Light]

Bears,

I didn't ask for people to post a lot of crap as open pictures in my thread, and ramble on about how modern art is worthless and they didn't know what it was but mine wasn't good.

Also, critique = critical anaylsis and not value analysis. People devalued my work. They never critiqued it. IN fact you find only 2 POST in that entire thread about my artwork. The rest is about other the other crap people posted.

A lot of people here don't know what an art critique is though. Honesty, I almost never make value statements because I know what a critique is. I do occasionally state that "I don't like it". This is rare that I do this because I know it can be misunderstood. If I make such a staetment as that then I am making a statement about my STATE OF BEING and not the artwork itself.

This is why I rarely do this because it can be misunderstood. Ie, I can see a good work CRITICALLY and just have a FEEL that I don't like it and in that case I might write "it looks good but I don't like it". But I rarely do that because its not really neccesary, and those post I just skip usually.

Bears anyway you seem to be somewhat schizophrenic in your logic. At first you were making a big deal about me showing my artwork, and proving myself.. oh yeah proving myself why.. so that Paul JR. would know if my advise was worth listenign too. So, I did that and now you are doing a 620 degree reversal?

Well, you see people as I said I can't "win" this. I don't have even the naive world view that would allow for that to register either.

And, if I'm not careful I will truth will crash down on the farm, and things will get really ugly. So, I need to go ahead and show everyone my splayed, and mangled body forms so that the herd can rest easy about the validity of my sacrifice, and loss.

Well, anyway, Paul I just had to qualfiy my work so you'd know exactly how bad I am, and according to Bears logic.. you can use that as a measure of the worth of my advise or something...... eh

Anyway, Bearsclover are you perhaps lonely? We've had quite a lot of intercourse over the past several hours, and honestly, I'm not that great of a conversationlist. I just can't keep this up any more.

So, I just have to end this somewhere, and I just want to go ahead, and get this defeat part over with.

Bye.

[bearsclover]

[retard]

[bearsclover]

Exactly, retard.

It was terribly inappropraite to do "comparisons" between Paul and himself like that.

Not only (as you mentioned) was the comparison unbalanced (showing Paul's WIP to one of Light's copied finished works) but he got to select which piece of his he'd compare with the only piece by Paul that we currently have access to.

It's also so incredibly inappropriate because Paul did not start this thread so that some emotionally-challenged fellow could run lame "comparisons" between both their works.

It was also totally needless, because (as I mentioned before), Light had already shown all his work on Page One of this thread, so this "comparison" was being redundant and gratuitous.

But then again, I'm sure our friend Paul didn't expect that this thread would become some sort of shit-storm where we'd be flaming Light, but there you go...

I'm sure if we wanted to, a lot of us could wipe the floor with Light, (so to speak) "comparing" our work to his. And I'm sure if we did that to Light, he'd cry "foul!" and explain to us how "unfair" it was, or how it wasn't a "balanced" comparison, or whatever. But he'll do it to Paul. What a charmer.

Yes, and I agree�we both continue to wonder if he's yanking our chains. Because he's so over the top.


But no matter whether he's kidding us or not, doing that to Paul was over the line.

Another thing (as if I haven't rambled enough!), I want Paul to know that no matter what "skill level" he's at right now, his attitude (and I think he's got a good one) will carry him far. He'll be more open to learning new things, accepting crticism (when it is given in good faith) and so forth. He'll be much better off with a good attitude than someone who may have a little more innate talent, but has a shitty attitude. (I am in NO WAY implying that Light has more innate talent; I'm not referring or alluding to Light here AT ALL.) I am just saying, one of the best things an artist can have is a good attitude. An attitude of not giving up, accepting advice and criticism, NOT having some psycho super-ego (I am talking about Light there ), and being able to persevere. I think Paul has a good attitude, so I think Paul's future as an artist is bright!
_________________
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

[Drunken Monkey]

Didn't Light come here a few years ago claiming to be among the best artists in the world? I am pretty sure it was him. Someone pointed me to his old rambles and it was pretty much the same jazz.
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Mikko K]

LIGHT: This is the worst Brom rip-off I've ever seen:

http://light1.home.mindspring.com/sketches/killerfin1.jpg

Don't tell me it's a study. I know it is, but it's so lame it's an insult against a great artist like Brom. And that apple-painting of yours, I prefer the one at goodbrush.com / process section.

..and boy, I was actually reading your article for a while.

[Light]

I never lied about my work. I have good original works too.

Btw Brom has seen my work, and has been very supportive. He is much nicer then you guys but then he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone.

Oh yeah, I didn't read the rest of what was written. I'm already bored. As far as me being one of the best artist in the world. I believe I have the opportunity to do that, yes. But then I feel that way about most people who have the motivation to work, and a goal.

Really the best artist don't act like you people do. They are much more mature, and some of them have big egos but only in a good way.

Bearsclover, btw quit with your dramatic performance. Anyone who has a brain can see I was very nice in this thread to PaulJR, and that YOU are the one who kept asking me to post my work and prove myself because I was only a "mechanic" and not an artist. Ie I wasn't qualified to critique Paul's work or some such thing as that or as it that I should critique in a more humble manner because I'm among such great people as you.

PaulJR best thing he will learn is that you people are full of it, and that he doesn't need to suck up to you.

You keep saying leave PAUL out of this, and this is still a thread about his artwork. A thread where you felt I was such a terrible or even non artist that Paul should have been warned so that he wouldn't fall trap and produce the terrible types of works that I've produced. Or some LOAD OF CRAP like that.

Bears you just wanted to start a flamewar against me, and you succeeded at NOTHING.

later..

BTW my original post to PaulJR that started this flamewar against me:

"Paul,

Stop and throw this away. The proportions aren't correct. I know you did a lot of work on this but you've learned a lot and should move on now (imo).

We all have been there where you are and maybe we still are there where you are as this looks original, and those are the hardest.

Here is my lessons for you:

* Work on sketching (forget painting for now)
* Work on visualization (find my article on visualization and study it)
* Study old masters
* Draw from life
* Study modern masters

Okay, you aren't going to listen to me, and want to paint anyway? Okay.. that's fine. Maybe, I'll go back to painting soon too. Maybe, you should work on painting something very accurately just to try to get the soft, hard, and sharp edges."

I'm a really mean guy huh.. Not like any of you.

Anyway, I don't have the need to prove myself. I think, how would Brom react in this situation, and I know he'd have quit this thread long ago because he's a lot nicer then me and he'd just quit posting here and paint.

Anyway, if anyone has a brain and reads this thread they'll realize that you people just ragged on me for no reason, and made lies about my works and about the quality of my works.

I think Bears is really afraid that I might be great. I think she is and she really wants to convince herself that I'm not. But, she doesn't really have very much intelligence by the sound of her writing, and that's okay. of course WHY is she so concerned if I'm really good and thats because she doesn't like me and by her own logic she must value me not based on if she likes me but on my artwork.

Sometimes I really wonder if she's afraid the people I critique will get better too. Of course, they should stay at intermediate-newbie level and be greatful for such a fine position just below the dogs, and their slop bowls at the table of the noblemen. I'm just glad that she doesn't feel threatened by the quality of Paul's work like she is mine.

The funny thing is, if we can find humour in such actions in you people, is that I'm the senior to all you people who rag me. I joined in 2000. But you can have your little rag party. It doens't change the truth, and it doesn't make any difference to anything except to prove how right I was from the very start.

I even sent an email to one of the people who liked my article explaining what you people would do.

You guys work pretty much all the same way: tear someone down to build youself up. I build myself up to build other people up. And thats the diference between the great, and the pathetic.

[Drunken Monkey]

Thats what happens when you pretend to be more than what you are.
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[bearsclover]

[Drunken Monkey]

[Light]

You know you people would be 1000x the artist you are if you cared as much about your own works as you did about attacking me.


This is a good lesson though on the psychologically of the way people act in group dynamics. Its not so surprising how Hitler was able to gain so much support once he was accepted.

Neither is it surprising how everyone enjoyed the killed of Chirst or the persecution of the slaved at the Gladiator events or the hanging of the "wtiches" in the Salem trials.

You get one person who attacks, and then a lot of people join in for what reason beffudles me. Of course, I've never been one to rag and flame so I wouldn't understand what motivates such people that do that.

People haven't changed much, and if even if I'm completly DELUSIONAL about my art work then this thread is still a real shame on men.

But not all men as only a few have really joined in these attacks, and maybe that is the brightest note for this thread to end on.

[bearsclover]

[Drunken Monkey]

If you spent 10th the time you spend on writing your condescending ignoramus advice you would be 1000x the artist too. You are just irritating to a lot of people. No one is hanging you messiah. Just telling you how it is so you stop spreading your ego around the forum like a weed with no cure.
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Loudmouth]

Bearsclover doesn't have much intelligence...says the guy who can't spell "grateful", and who appears to have no idea what a comma's really for.

Light, you're irksome,
Light, you smell
Now, shut your mouth
And go to...

...well, you get the idea.

[Sumaleth]

Well, it's been fun.
_________________
Art Links Archive -- Artists and Tutorials