[Sumaleth]

I'm trying to get something worth submitting to Expose and this is what I've decided to work on:



Some will no doubt remember the mech from this image, but I added the mech there to someone elses image so I can't submit it like that.

Anyway, the above image is a "mockup/sketch", just to get it in some kind of ball park, and now I've got to paint up a x4 version. At the moment I guess the girl looks a bit pasted-on, but I'm hoping to be able to work out a way to make her look more part of the whole.

I'm open to comments/paintovers/ideas on how to improve it and what doesn't work.
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[Sumaleth]

Trying more contrast in the foreground:



I'm using the red to give the image some contrast and impact, but I'm wondering if it's working against me..
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[Sumaleth]

Based on some suggestions from IRC:


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[Matthew]

Hey
Wow that looks really cool.
I would add a layer with some snow on top of her since it is snowing, on the head, upper arms and also her chest and buxom.
You could also make a pile of snow which she stands in, well this is just ideas cause it looks really cool now.

One thing thou, not sure if red reflects that much in snow, Could depend on the weather and lighting I suppose and I could only find a small picture to show what I mean, I guess you are going for the more icey snow too and then I am not really sure about cloth reflections.


Edit - ohh hehe, you added another picture while I was writing. the purple looks like a colder color.



hope some of it helped
Matthew

[Matthew]

Try out a blue-grey color on her cloth, that would be very nice.

Matthew

[AndyT]

It's a great concept!
I like the bright red color in the first two pics. But the latest version is cool too.
Making her look less blurry helped a lot IMO.
Maybe the mecha is too detailed? And i think her legs look still too blurry close to the ground.
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[Max]

this is hella impressive
stunning image

but both, the roboter and the girl, stick out kinda
not sure if it's good like this or if you should change the contrast somehow...

well, you will choose the right way, I am sure

again, fabulous work!!!

[Sumaleth]

Thanks for the comments. I've been trying to weigh up about 20 different opinions and I came to the conclusion that I don't know what to do.

I'm going to go with this look for now:



I might still end up using a bright red color on the cloth - I really like it in the earlier sketches - but I'll have to wait and see what works.

Time to paint it for real and stop procrastinating.
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[oDD]

don't know if you care for another opinion but

its hard to tell if she is the victim of some military forces or a driver of the mech. Paint someoneinside the mech or leave the cockpit open.

i would do the paintover to check some of my ideas about copsition but i'm at work so maybe later.
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[Sumaleth]

odd: I actually wanted to leave the image open to interpretation, rather than forcing a particular story on it. But a lot of people seem to read it as though she's the "pilot" so maybe I'll have the cockpit open in the final version.

The depth of the image wasn't working correctly so I moved the mech up closer today, plus I did some color variations:









I still might go with the brighter red of earlier versions, but the two duller ones from this lot seem popular.

No more mucking around, I'm going to paint it properly now.
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[Capt. Fred]

You probably don't want antoher opinion but I'll give one anyhow; I think the first colour was easily best, and I think that she looks too blurry and rendered inconsitently too the rest of the image. That as point is no doubt going to disappear when you talk about 'painter it properly'. Cool Kepp her red

EDIT: I was just fiddling in photoshop and came to post my fiddle and saw spooge had beat me too it making my fiddles more than obslete. So I'll just drop it in here rather than post after him I was just thinking that I couldn't imagine such a bright red as you had, nor such a change in hue for the shadows as you were mucking about with :

[spooge demon]

I think the color won't make much difference one way or another. I tried a little lower camera, a little longer lens to flatten out the shapes a bit and give them a more abstract quality. The figure ground relationship in yours Sumaleth could be better. If you don't want to muck around with lenses, cropping is a cheap trick (that works sometimes).

Make two bounding boxes in a 3-d program and play with it. Great fun.

If something is buggin you about a pic, 99% of the time it is not color. It is drawing, then value, then composition, with color coming way down there. And if it is color, deciding on a different local color for an object is way down on the color hierarchy as well. At least it seems to be for me. But I know it is tough, when you don't know how to fix a drawing, what can you do? I face that all the time. It is tempting to screw around with other stuff in a vain attempt to spackle over the problem.

The lighting in this scene would be about as diffuse as you can get. It is overcast, so you have the bias to the full hemisphere of the sky, but the snow throws light around even more, both the stuff on the ground and falling.

well you can see what I did and take it or leave it.

man, I did this once, my FREAKING MAC crashed, taking the whole thing with it. So I redid it fast, sorry.

edit, I know you are a writer, so I feex my spelleing errers

[Sumaleth]

odd: the problem with going that desaturated is that she looks dead, and the focal point of the image is lost.

spooge: wow, that's an amazingly expressive version, and its fascinating to see your take. I wish I could think like that when I'm drawing stuff. The mood and style of the image is quite different to what I was going for, which was something more along the lines of a scifi book cover. Still, very interesting, and yes I think it does prove that the pink and red colors of the girl can actually work -- in the right hands.

--

About 80% of the feedback on this didnt like the naked+scarf idea, so I decided to see if a mech suit would work better:


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[SpiralEye]

Sumaleth,
I think you ought to keep the flowing thing because it's such a contrast to the usual mech picture.

I think that your background mecha would be less contrasty due to atmospheric perspective.

My two cents.

spell check = failed

[Matthew]

Spooge - very cool, I started to think about the Matrix ship you made.

Sumaleth - yea I like the latest one, maybe the helmet looks a little big.

Matthew

[Anthony]

Hey Suma, nice image so far. And Spooge's PO gives me a pain in my chest, as always. ;]

I wonder what she's doing there though? It looks kinda like she's stretching-but then you'd want to arch her back more. If she's the pilot of the mech, then she's either stopped for a stretch, to meet someone, or else its crashed(better idea in my mind). If she has crashed, she can take it several ways - 1) Jaded disgruntledness, with an expression and posture showing that she "might have known" it'd happen, 2)Worried determination, where she's out in the middle of nowhere, and knows the odds, but isn't about the throw in the towel, 3)They'll come and get me, where she knows someone is coming, maybe even waiving to the approaching ship as she sits on her helmet.

Anyway, the difficulty with trying not to tell a story, but setting things up for one, is that you often will end up with a very neutral picture that people don't have the compulsion to figure out. Her situation, and the type of person she is will affect everything about her posture and face-even the type of face, and what she's wearing. The best images are usually well thought out, because then you know what you're driving towards when you're painting. If you can feel what she's thinking and feeling when you're doing it, it'll come through on the canvas much more.

Practical - There should probably be more contrast on the girl area than the mech area to increase depth.
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[Max]

[Matthew]

Max - hey Max, yea he did a ship for Matrix. He spoked about the ship in a Matrix thread I had a couple of months ago.

thank you for letting me show the picture earlier Ragnarok.

Matthew

[spooge demon]

noononoo first this is not the place to discuss this and that ship I had nothing to do with either in design or execution. i painted the BG, and it was I think in the superbowl trailer. I don't think it is in the final film at all.

so back to rowans image.

[Sumaleth]

Actually, I'm more interested in the matrix thing.

--

spiral: yes, a number of people have pointed out that the mech needs to be less contrasty, but I find if I reduce the contrast the mech doesn't look any good. I'll probably keep playing with that though.

anthony: I just wanted to paint a picture that has a good mood to it, so I've been amazed at how many people try to get a story out of it. But I think that with the addition of the "suit" the story is that she's stopped to take a moment to appreciate the beauty of the falling snow. Or something.
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[Torstein Nordstrand]

I think it looks great already, Sumaleth. Sacrificing some die-hard realism ain't too bad either, on your way to poetry

I'm sure you've had enough of interpretations/helpful advice, but here's mine anyway. What is she enjoying? How about small red drops/flowers/fireflies falling from the sky? I'm thinking colour/theme contrast/excitement/drama here. Also, you might experiment a little with your hands "cutting off" a little on the sides, like Spooge mentioned. There's quite a bit of uneventful space around.

Good progress
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[Matthew]

Spooge / ohh, sorry for the speculations there, we kind of continued that discussion in the Matrix thread I had way back and we thought that you maybe painted the ship. hehe back to Sumaleth picture.

Sumaleth / sorry for mixing in Matrix in your thread.

Matthew

[Max]

I am sorry too.

I think your latest design is the best Sumaleth.
Great improvement

[Malachi Maloney]

Looking forward to seeing this finished.
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[Sumaleth]

I've been working on the full size version (4800px wide), and this is where it's at:



Got some anatomy problems on the arms that I'm struggling to fix now. And I'll probably have to do the falling snow differently - see if I can get it to look like part of the scene.
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[maxetormer]

so far so great i like the image a lot , i agree the snow needs work, maybe some deep of field? this image IT IS NOT MINE but i really like it maybe u can use it as inspiration http://www.deviantart.com/view/821031

hell maybe i am just nuts!!! he he

see ya great skill u have
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[Ragnarok]

Maybe you should consider washing out a bit the mech?

I don't know where you want the focal point in the image, but right now I tend to look more at the mecha than the girl, and I've always thought people should be more importatn than things when trying to express something

Also, maybe some more light would be reflected from the snow? Depends on the weather, though

Just throwing some ideas in =)
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[Sumaleth]

max: actually, I forgot to turn several levels of snow on in that one. And thanks for pointing out Niv's picture, I did take inspiration from it, although my bright environment makes it less effective.

rag: I've tried making the girl stronger rather than washing the mech out more. I think it's a good compromise.

--

Here's where it be at:


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[UkiTakuMuki]

wow! amazing... i think a lower angle shot like what spooge did is cooler.. it throws more oh a 'fantasy/bliss' feel to the picture.

i missed the red though maybe add some tattered red shawl or smthing ^^

/me bows

[AndyT]

I think the latest version a lot better.
I guess the helmet is falling? Maybe it should be less detailed to show that it's in motion?
The suit makes her look look less feminine though ...
I guess because the shoulders look broad and the hips narrow.

Maybe that's just me but I think it takes away from the image.

[edit]Ooops I didn't realize that it's finished! [/edit]
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