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Topic : "hardware for new computers?" |
bellie
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Joined: 09 Feb 2001
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Location: Sydney, NsW, Australia
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 Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 4:47 am |
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ok guys.. i hope this fits into this spot because the comp im going to buy is mainly for art (digital + 3d.. and a bit of games but mainly digital + 3d  )
and i just got a few questions
1) apart from the price differences in p4's and athlons.. <p4s being the higher> is there anything else noticeable ? like are athlons dodgier and slower or anything ? id rather spend a bit more money knowing that my computer will be running better than buying an athlon.. but if they're both the same obviously i would like to save the money
2) radeon 9700 .. thats a good graphics card right ? just checking that itll do the job for me.. if not please tell me
3) a gig of ram .. ddr2700... do brand names matter ? im not going to get brand name because its cheaper .. and i heard that it doesnt really matter unless u overclock.. and also would a gig be enough for rendering in 3d programs? would this computer be good enough?
4) the screen.. i heard LCDs (the flat FLAT ones) were crappy at colour projection or something and they refresh slower and i should get one of those flat fat ones (flat at front but has the fat bum) .. or does that not really matter? also one of my friendsa said for a few hundred u can just get a flat FLAT one but that seemed a bit weird to me koz that seems pretty cheap.. is that something normal or does that just mean that the flat FLAT one he's getting is like a piece of poo ? (btw any suggestions on stats for good monitors ? what sizes are good ? im thinking 19 inch .. i think 21 would be too big and hurt my eyes and too exp)
well .. i think thats it ! if u guys could reply as soon as possible.. any of the questions it would be great.. i have to go get a new computer soon so i can actually start my 3d studies ! best of luck to u all and thanks in advance for replying.. byebyebye
-me. |
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henrik
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Joined: 26 Oct 1999
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Location: London UK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 5:02 am |
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hey, from looking at your setup, I'd definately try to get 2 gig of RAM. This will make most Photoshop painting run smoothly. 1 gig is fine, but 2 is worth considering. (Painting + 3d) ...Money doesn't seem to be an issue 
Don't know about the rest...
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bellie
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Location: Sydney, NsW, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 5:17 am |
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NONONO
money IS (AND ALWAYS ALWAYS IS) an issue ! !  hehe..
but the cpu thing was only like one hundred dollar different and i was willing to make that sacrifice.. another gig of ram.. thats something else
<EDIT> BTW they arent 1 gig sticks.. they are 2 512 sticks.. hehe |
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eyalyab
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Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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Location: Israel
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 9:11 am |
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a gig of ram (!!) and you're getting cheap on buying an amd instead of an intel. bah!! plus you're getting a radeon9700. so.. i say get a pentium, get that stack of ram and get RAID (YA!!) then you can do all kinds of rendering and shiat. i dont know if you need that phat ass video accelerator if you're not gonna play any kickass games like hrm.. doom3. you can get a much cheaper video card that will still work. like hrm.. the nv440mx still works for me with that kickass mohaa game. instead of the radeon9700 ou can invest more on ram or cpu speed or sometin.. just a thought.
i have a 19" lg flatron (model 915ft plus) its a good monitor imho.
btw: liteon make the best burners if you are thinking of getting one. |
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haohmaru
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Joined: 09 Jan 2001
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Location: graz | austria
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:44 am |
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i don't exactly know what i am talking about, so please don't take this reply as an advice. i'd just like to mention a thing i noticed myself:
for years i had a voodoo5 installed until it finally died some months ago. i tried a gforce4 and a radeon instead and have to say that the picture on my monitor seemed slightly blurry when compared to the voodoo, no matter the adjustments. i stayed with the radeon anyway, but i can not tell if there are any cards out there that would deliver the crispy clear picture i once had :/
maybe someone knows more about that than i do.
which graphics-cards are aiming more on picture-quality than gaming performance?
i thought this could be a thing you might want to consider.
[edit] corrected some typos.
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eyalyab
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Posts: 308
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:47 pm |
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| too bad 3dfx is dead. their cards weren't the best but they had the bes drivers and updated constantly. i had 2 voodoo cards. a voodoo2000 and a voodoo4500 and they were good cards. |
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glody
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Joined: 02 Dec 2001
Posts: 233
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:53 pm |
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| eyalyab wrote: |
| too bad 3dfx is dead. their cards weren't the best but they had the bes drivers and updated constantly. i had 2 voodoo cards. a voodoo2000 and a voodoo4500 and they were good cards. |
lol....which is why voodoo went bankrupt......nvidia bought them out and took all of their research and are adding it to their new wave of video cards in the present and for the future. By far, Nvidia has the best drivers out there hands down.
The next 10 to 20 years are going to be VERY exciting.  |
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B0b
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Joined: 14 Jul 2002
Posts: 1807
Location: Sunny Dorset, England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:42 am |
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| bellie wrote: |
| ok guys.. i hope this fits into this spot because the comp im going to buy is mainly for art (digital + 3d.. and a bit of games but mainly digital + 3d ) |
how much 3D?
| bellie wrote: |
and i just got a few questions
1) apart from the price differences in p4's and athlons.. <p4s being the higher> is there anything else noticeable ? like are athlons dodgier and slower or anything ? id rather spend a bit more money knowing that my computer will be running better than buying an athlon.. but if they're both the same obviously i would like to save the money
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XP's are good value for the money: have good bang for buck apeal (u need a Xeon CPU to get true rendering speeds)
| bellie wrote: |
2) radeon 9700 .. thats a good graphics card right ? just checking that itll do the job for me.. if not please tell me
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i've heard alot of bad things about the 9700 series, but ATi seem to b getting their act together and producing some stable drivers - u should look @ the 9700 Pro if ur going to b doing 3D work
| bellie wrote: |
3) a gig of ram .. ddr2700... do brand names matter ? im not going to get brand name because its cheaper .. and i heard that it doesnt really matter unless u overclock.. and also would a gig be enough for rendering in 3d programs? would this computer be good enough? |
sure u can render stuff in 1Gb of RAM, but remember all 3D apps + Photoshop eat RAM for breakfast more the better
| bellie wrote: |
4) the screen.. i heard LCDs (the flat FLAT ones) were crappy at colour projection or something and they refresh slower and i should get one of those flat fat ones (flat at front but has the fat bum) .. or does that not really matter? also one of my friendsa said for a few hundred u can just get a flat FLAT one but that seemed a bit weird to me koz that seems pretty cheap.. is that something normal or does that just mean that the flat FLAT one he's getting is like a piece of poo ? (btw any suggestions on stats for good monitors ? what sizes are good ? im thinking 19 inch .. i think 21 would be too big and hurt my eyes and too exp) |
bigger the monitor the better looking @ 1600x1200 on a 19 is nice, but on a 21 its bliss . in regard to the TFT question, the cheaper ones i wouldn't touch with a barge pole, however Dell 20" TFT is very nice (looked @ 1 over the weekend) and thats my next screen (1600x1200 res) |
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soLkana
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Joined: 20 Sep 2000
Posts: 14
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:07 pm |
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it's cool i came across this thread, i'm also trying to decide what i want for a new computer, mainly for art & design and definitely a bit of gaming too
and because i'm such a n00b when it comes to computer talk, i want to ask..
1. What operating system do you guys use for the PC? just curious.
2. What is RAID? what does it do? (I could do reseach on the web, but I figured you guys could give a much simpler explanation.)
thanks |
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B0b
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Posts: 1807
Location: Sunny Dorset, England
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:24 am |
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| soLkana wrote: |
| 2. What is RAID? what does it do? (I could do reseach on the web, but I figured you guys could give a much simpler explanation.) ) |
ok RAID 0 ,1, 5 r ur basic RAID levels
RAID 0 is all about Performance. It combines the drives into a single array and stripes your data across them all. You want extreme transfer rates? You want RAID 0.
There is a catch. If one drive fails, you lose everything on that array. EVERYTHING. Unless you backup to something like a tape backup unit on a regular basis or image your drive to another system, you�re fecked.
basically - take 2 x 40Gb HDD and they then become 1 x 80Gb double speed drive - ie. 1 x 40Gb HDD = 28Mb/s transfer - 2x40=1x80Gb = 60Gb/s tansfer (transfer speeds are not exact, they may vairy on ur HDD + System)
RAID 5 is the best compromise between speed and data security. It stripes your data across the drives but adds parity information to that data and distributes it across the array. If a drive fails you don�t lose your data.
You can go and get another drive to replace the failed one and your RAID controller will rebuild your previous array to the state it was in before, usually you can still use the system while this is going on.
The catch to RAID 5 is that it takes a bit of time for the RAID processor to calculate the parity data. This slows down the performance to a level below that of RAID 0. There�s also the drive space used by the parity data.
RAID 1 is the paranoid person�s friend. It takes a single drive and mirrors the data onto a second drive. If one drive fails, you don�t lose any data. Performance is basically identical to that of a single drive, but it does cost a whole mirrored drive to get that security. It�s not as high performance as RAID 0 or RAID 5, but it is the safest way to protect your data from drive failure.
There are other RAID levels. RAID 0+1, 3, 10, 30, 50 etc. Have a look at the Storagereview.com article for a detailed explanation of them. |
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soLkana
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Joined: 20 Sep 2000
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Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:03 am |
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| aaaaah.. thanks B0b |
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Aaron
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Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:10 pm |
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You probably already bought your computer, but oh well, I like talking about them so I'm going to respond anyway.
I only buy AMD cpus, they are just as good as Intel Pentiums. In fact, until recently, they always outperformed Intel processors of the same clock speed (1.4 Athlon performed at almost the level of a 1.7 Pentium). The price difference is for the name only. What speed are you looking at?
The Radeon 9700 Pro (are you getting the pro?) is by far the fastest video card available. Nvidia's new FX card will only slightly outperform it. And it supports directx9 so it's a good long term investment. If on the only hand you are looking for the best price/performance card, get the GeForce4 4200, it is a 3rd/4th of the price and still very fast (only about 15% slower than the GF4 4600). Don't get the GF4 MX! It shouldn't even be called a GF4, it's more like a fast GF2.
Whoever told you generic ram was just as good is crazy. Overclocking or not, generic ram is always a gamble; you may get lucky, more likely though you will end up with an unstable computer. I've worked many times on these nighmare machines, with endless problems all caused by the cheap ram. And there is nothing you can do but replace it. Anyone with experience will tell you to avoid generic ram! The best brands are cosair and crucial. Samsung and kingston are also very good. All four of those brands come with lifetime warranties. It is worth the extra money.
While the price is dropping on LCD monitors, they are still twice the price of a CRT monitors. And they are not yet on par with the visual quality. Unless you are pressed for space, or want to be trendy, I'd put of a LCD for a while. The cheap monitor your friend told you about is probably crap.
What motherboard are you looking at? That's the single most important component in your new computer. |
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B0b
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Joined: 14 Jul 2002
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Location: Sunny Dorset, England
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:46 am |
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RE: motherboard
Abit is the only way to go
unless ur gettin g a dual sys then Tyan |
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Aaron
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Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:57 am |
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| I personally prefer asus, but abit does make fantastic motherboards. You can't go wrong with either. Have you seen nvidia's nforce2 chipset? Very exciting, and only for AMD |
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Gendaru
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Joined: 05 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:10 pm |
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| I'd say that the Athalons are an excellent choice... For one, if you get one, get one with a 333mhz bus, and a motherboard with the Nforce2 chipset. The athalons actually have the only true 333mhz fsb. The supposed higher bus speeds of P4s are actually just different permutations of numbers. Also, the Nforce2 chipset supports dual memory channels, thus your 2 seperate 512mb DIMMS (definitely get high quality, or you're just asking for a kick in the ass) work on seperate channels, which I hear gives you about 150% of the performance of a standard setup... There is a P4 chipset that supports dual ram channels, but its an incredibly expensive intel sever chipset. In short, higher ram performance is higher graphics performance. As for the graphics cards... I'd say that if you can afford a Radeon 9700 pro, get one... The new offering from Nvidia doesn't appear to have a significant advantage to make up for its huge, howling cooling system. Bang for buck, I agree the Geforce4 ti4200 is your pick, but the 9700 pro will give you about 170% of the performance of the GF4ti4200... LCD screens are a waste of money, unless, as they said you want to be trendy or are short on space... I for one would just get two CRTs for the price of one LCD screen, and run dual monitors (I have desk space to burn). High quality components will pay you back with stability and reliability. If you run a high end system these days, you need a good solid power supply to support it... Especially if you go Athalon and Radeon 9700... make sure those +3.3V and +5v lines add up to the better part of the power rating, otherwise you'll have a lot of wonderful crashes when you need your power. |
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bellie
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Posts: 63
Location: Sydney, NsW, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 5:51 am |
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hey guys.. sorry about the very very late reply !
well.. athlon ? ive been hearing that its good (and according to you gendaru even better than a p4).. is that really true ? athlons are so so much more cheaper i cant believe that it can actually be BETTER than a p4?
is this 333mhz bus thing and mobo expensive?
atm im thinking of getting this
p4 2.5gig (ish)
two of 512mb ram 3200 mhz (or something like that.. 3200 something )
asus p4pe mobo
just a crt 19" monitor.. probably one
radeon 9700 (not pro.. because 9700 is heaps cheaper and heard pro isnt that much better than normal one)
thats about it really.. im guessing other stuff wont really matter..
is that alright ? i dont think the radeon even supports dual monitors does it ? and my case is like 200 dollars (australian) so im guessing its pretty good.. i dunno why im spending so much on it.. dont ask me.. please.. hehe
and this voltage thing is making athlon much more.. not want-able |
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Dr. Bang
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:03 am |
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Dont buy the Radeon 9700 just yet, if u gonna buy it, buy the 9500 Pro.
Because nerds just discovered a hack that flash the 9500 Pro to have a FASTER speed than the 9700. 9700 and 9500 is basicly the same chip, have the same architechure.
Plus, might wanna wait some more because the 9800 is selling at store by the end of this month.
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B0b
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Location: Sunny Dorset, England
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:29 am |
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| u also need to re-solder a capaciter (spelling), its not guaranteed to work either (some ppl have problems with textures in games and 3D apps).. the 9800 is about 2 hit the shelves = all current models get slashed in cost.. |
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gezstar
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:00 am |
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Make sure you get brand name RAM - I made the mistake of getting crap RAM and my comp kept restarting whenever it couldn't handle it. Also, ATI cards have really nice 2D. Umm, also get a good power supply, otherwise your PC might crash a lot under intensive 3D. Athlons are good, but slightly less stable than Pentiums which is why you have to compensate with better RAM and power supplies.
All of the above I learnt through trial and error + lots of wasted cash! |
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bellie
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Joined: 09 Feb 2001
Posts: 63
Location: Sydney, NsW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:03 am |
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ok lets see guys ! sorry about all this.. and i STILL havent bought my comp !! hehe..
ok this is what im going for so far (with additional info if anyone understands them .. hehe koz i sure dont) ..
all these prices are australian btw.. with gst in case anyone thinks im getting ripped please tell me
-p4 2.5ish gig 533mhz ppga478 - $385.25
-asus p4pe i845pe D33 A133 U2 4x 6sndLan/1139 - $182.95
-DDR PC-2700 (333) 512 MB mem (ram) - $220.37
ok.. i think thats all thats important actually hehe.. my case is good and its power is strong .. 330 W i think.. so yeah i dont think the power thing should be a problem..
i asked the guy if the ram had a brand and he said that it doesnt really matter nowadays.. but thats jsut what he said.. he said if i wanted a specific one he'll try to get me it but if they dont have it then he cant give me it.. yeah..
.. he said something about the 8x on radeons and how on the mobo im getting its 4x.. my friend sent me a site where it shows that the difference is very minimal.. like.. .1 % or 1% or something .. so im thinking that a 4x AGP thingy mobo wont matter does anyone know anything about it ? 4x mobos support 8x graphics cards right?
also he sais 9700 arent shipped to australia anymore.. only 9700 pros.. and about that 9500 pro one.. i dont really want to fiddle around with my components.. just in case u know ? .. a pro is like 100 or so more than the normal one but i heard its not even that much faster.. should i just go for the pro?
well how does this setup sound ? if i want to get a more expensive mobo by asus with 8x support thats like double the price.. i can get a soltek mobo for 20 dollars less than what the asus one is but i heard soltek suck and judging the price thats pretty dodgy..
if u can answer any questions thatll be cool
and ill use this for 3d work.. maya and such.. oh.. and some games.. hee
<EDIT> the price of the radeon 9500 pro is like $385.25.. pros are like.. 100 more right ? hehe.. anyone know?
btw im going dual monitors.. one with the new 19" samsumg dynaflat ctr monitor for 504.95 dollars.. and oen with some lg 17" or so that i have at home.. thats good right ?
byebye
</EDIT> |
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B0b
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Posts: 1807
Location: Sunny Dorset, England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 12:42 am |
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i wouldn't touch a Samsung with a bargepole...
Viewsonic P90f 19" is my next monitor
if u read the board, u'd see that Abit motherboards are the way to go..
i don't know what pound to Austrailan $$ is but i got my PC-2700 512Mb RAM for �60 (branded)
and if ur going P4 route u should b looking for faster RAM that than - look for RIMMs
tbh my XP2000+ (1.67Ghz) is bout the same spec as a 2.4Ghz P4 - �69 |
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bellie
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Posts: 63
Location: Sydney, NsW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:39 am |
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anybody know where i can check up on currencies and stuff so i can compare bobs prices to get an idea of how expensive his products are?
is that pounds ? sorry i have no idea
is samsung bad ? how comes? i didnt know.. i just checked up ur viewsonic p90f 19" price.. thats the one how the screen<edit>i mean monitor</edit> is 19" but the screens 18" right ? man thats like $830 aussie.. compared to my samsung $500 ish thats a bit too much of a jump..
<edit> PS about monitors im thinking of dualing them... the new monitor i buy and some LG one i have now.. i was wondering since one of them will be flat screened and the other is curved will it be weird ? like just feel really weird ? koz i heard it takes time to get used to flat screens.. adn if thats so then if i have two different monitors then it might just make me spastic ? hehe.. and if its just really bad for my eyes somehow ? </edit>
and Abits i heard are too expensive.. im not going for best here and i dont have too much money hehe.. im just going for best for price.. sorry if i didnt mention that before.. eek..
and when u talk about RIMMS what do u mean ? is that corsairs and stuff ? they're also.. err.. very expensive hehe
btw this RAID stuff.. is that on HDs or.. ? and is that changeable once u purchase it or do you buy the 'thing' in RAID0 or wateva?
<edit> no actually i get it now.. i see.. is RAID0 really soemthing to go for ? then ill have to buy two drives .. hm.. </edit>
man im so so so sorry about all these stupid questions.. and it doesnt even seem like im taking ur advices just that i dont have an unlimited budget and just want to make sure.. sheesh its only a computer what am i doing.. tsk tsk |
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eyalyab
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:00 pm |
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a few things.
@ RAID, you'll need to get a /\/\RAIN\typo/\/\ RAID controller. im not really the guy to ask about this stuff.. im sure Bob knows ;]/
if you get a video card that supports agpx8, then there shouldnt be a reason why you shouldnt take advantage of it and get a motherboard that supports agpx8 as well.
same goes for ram speed. make sure the sture you're buying all that stuff isnt ripping you off, cuz it sounds like it..
they might be selling you super fast ram, but then the m/board will only support half of that speed.. you get my point.
in other words, make sure all the component you buy are "compatible" and that you get the best your motherboard allows out of your components and vice versa.
video cards prices are about to drop (me thinks) and so.. you should get r9700 P-R-O.
instead of wasting 200 bucks on a case (!!) invest that money on.. i dont know.. something else.. there are tons of privilages rather than nice looking cases with stupid neon lights. those are for idiots.
instead you can invest in going SCSI. SCSI is alot faster than IDE and it works parallel, which means better performance for simultaneous work on differend drives/cdron/etc.. its an expensive thing but i think if i had the extra 200 bucks id go for interior parts rathen than exterior look of the case.. |
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bellie
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Location: Sydney, NsW, Australia
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B0b
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Location: Sunny Dorset, England
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 8:53 am |
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ok clarify a few things 8x AGP is a marketing gimmick.. the 4x AGP bus isn't even being pushed to the limits yet..
u buy cheap ur buying a ticket to blue screens and crashes.. if u can't afford it then don't upgrade
ur aussie dollars seem dodgy to me, the Viewsonic P90f is only �235+ VAT here in sunny england (best price i can find)
even with the conversion of 830.00 AUD = 312.862 GBP so thats quite a bit more than we pay here..
conversion here |
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B0b
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Posts: 1807
Location: Sunny Dorset, England
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 8:58 am |
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| eyalyab wrote: |
| RAID, you'll need to get a /\/\RAIN\typo/\/\ RAID controller. im not really the guy to ask about this stuff.. im sure Bob knows ;]/ |
correct alot of the top end abit motherboards have RAID built in - mine does (Abit VP6 Dual CPU, has IDE 100 RAID - i'll be taking full advantage of this next month with dual Western Digital, ATA 100, 8ms, 80Gb HDDs)
if you don't have RAID built onto the Motherboard then u can purchase a PCI card from �30 ($47 USA) to �80 ($126) for IDE controllers - u can go SCSI for alot more (but better perfomance) |
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