[Skitz0.X]

Alright, I wouldn't be surprised that some people on here not only are visual artists but also make music.

I am not currently able to really invest much on a good synthesizer - (which I wish I could, since I have 7years of piano experience to help me compose my melodies), but I do want to at least compose my own music instead of mix, on my pc.

Anyone that can reccomend programs, I would highly appreciate it. Perhaps even some tips, contacting me via ICQ or something?
Also, if you listen to Noise Unit, or Front Line Assembly, you will know what I'm aiming for as far as sound.
I want my own style, but I use Bill Leeb's work as a goal to work towards.

Thanks a lot!

[roundeye]

dude, youre not listening. go get IT2.14 dont listen to anyone else, this is the best its what leeb uses

[Skitz0.X]

What is that?

Where can I get it at....

[roundeye]

its ancient dos shit, and its tricky to set up sometimes, but it fuckin rules! and theres retarded amounts of resources for it. bring in your own wavs cut from vhs or whatever.
BTW anyone who tells you different is a heretic!
http://www.noisemusic.org/it/

[balistic]

hehheh, roundeye speaks the truth.

Impulse Tracker is old, and requires you to memorize a few (okay, a ton) of hotkeys, but once you figure it out, its a great way to make music. I used IT exclusively for over five years, but I've recently added another program called Orion to my arsenal. You can grab a free demo of that at http://www.sonicsyndicate.com. Its only $50 to buy it, and it can reproduce $10,000 worth of old analog gear . . . it eats Rebirth (and Buzz) for breakfast.

There are tons of free and cheap audio tools you can download here: http://www.maz-sound.com.

That should keep you busy. Welcome to the revolution

[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: balistic ]

[MoleculeMan]

Fruityloops is the way to go for me! heh. www.fruityloops.com i think. This is more for making techno/electronica, but you can make music that sounds traditionally made. I have a friend who uses it to make really good songs ( www.mp3.com/osteo if you are insterested ) so i trust it.

Jake

[Tendril]

http://www.buzzmachines.com/
Buzz rules, its free, and its got a pretty huge following. Im no expert, its the only thing ive ever used, but ive been mucking around with it for about a year and theres nothing I want to do that I cant...

[Happy Man]

Music is a form of pleasure....
I reccomend it, in fact I reccomend anything that makes you happy.

[ October 26, 2001: Message edited by: Happy Man ]

[Skitz0.X]

Thanks a lot guys! This really does help me a lot.

I've been mainly mixing for the past year and a half or so, just using Ejay, Acid pro, and a few sound editing tools..but nothing too fancy. I'm getting tired of using pre-made loops where you'll start a great sounding song, but then itll take you months to find another good melodic loop that fits the first one you find.
And then of course, finding just simple loops is a big problem too, because too many people like to add percussion, melody and voice samples all in one loop.
It's like "Thanks, but I'd rather compile the song on my own"
-
As far as hardware, anyone got any advice?
Eventually I am planning on investing in some
Thanks again!

[A.Buttle]

Even better than Rebirth is Reason, from the same company. Reason r0x0rz the hizouse.

[Lunatique]

Arghhhh! I can't stand pre-made loops. That's for people that aren't musicians and can't create music from scratch. To me, that's almost like cheating. Too easy to make "music" that way, and any idiot can do it.

I started with a Roland D-10, and a 2 track(yeah, that's right. TWO track)sequencer. I played everything from scratch, in REALTIME, and programmed the drums one note at a time.

Then, I worked with Studio Pro for a bit in the early 90's on the Mac(I was a member of Factor One, a short lived industrial band. We played with Frontline Assembly, Sheep On Drugs, Grotus, Biohazard, Chainsaw Kittens..etc).

Many electronic musicians use Cubase or Logic. I used Logic Platinum for a bit, and it's very sophisticated. Professional composers use those programs when they can't afford Pro Tools.

All the other pre-made loop style programs are for light weights. If you are a real musician, you wouldn't touch that stuff.

All the industrial bands I know use Pro Tools, Cubase, or Logic. Accept no substitute. They might use other programs for little things, but for the backbone of their production in a studio setting, it's always those three.

As far as harware, you need to have a dedicated harddrive that's SCSI, and preferably at least 9,200 rpm(you might be able to get away with slower, but you get what you pay for. Basically, the fater the better). You use it especially for just your audio files. DO NOT record on the same harddrive as your operating system or programs.

Also, your computer should be as fast as you can afford, with TONS of RAM. If you can afford a gig, then do it.

You also need a kickass sound card. Consumer grade stuff could work, but your stuff won't sound very professional.

I suggest you go to these websites and read up on some pro stuff. You'll learn a lot.
http://www.steinberg.net http://www.emagic.de http://www.digidesign.com

Those sites will have lots of info on what sound cards you should use, and which ones are better. They also have hardware requirements for digital recording.

Hope this helps.

[Muzman]

Are you a beginer and are you cashed up to the back teeth? These are the important questions. Since you can't afford a physical synth we'll assume yes to both. (or rather, if I was awake when I typed it the first time; yes to the first one and No to the second)
Fortunately the times are on your side. You don't even need a good soundcard since these days they all have fairly clean output, you aren't planning on controling anything (since you can't afford actual gear) so MIDI isn't a real concern, and you don't need great inputs for the same reason. Basically, you can make and distribute tunes without any audio signal leaving your computer.
Buzz is pretty fearsome toy, that's for sure. And the price can't be beat.
Slightly more costly is fruityloops; but it's insanely good and insanely flexible these days (out of the old guard of trackers and rebirth etc I reckon Fruity is the winner overall. I mean even version 1 was a pattern sequencer for any-damn-wav-file-you-please, which is just the ants pants as far as I'm concerened. Nowadays its a synth as well, with a really nice sequencer and great MIDI. It's actually shaping up to be a small version of monster toys like Reason. I know entire CDs made with just Fruity)
Wav editors; everyone needs a wav editor. How else are you going to mangle those illegal samples properly?
Cool Edit is great (if butt ugly), but Goldwave is great too and it's demo is fully functional. Sound Forge 5 is, of course, the killer, but you can't have everything.

What you'd really want to get by on, if you're a keyboard player from way back like you said, is one of those little MIDI keyboards. They just send MIDI messages. A good one with aftertouch will set you back hardly anything really ($100?). They're usually only about 3 octaves though, with a few knobs. Actually *playing* rather than forever clicking does beat all though.

Anyway, these three web sites hold all the answers.
http://www.harmony-central.com/ http://www.intermusic.com/ http://www.synthzone.com/ (pay particular attention to the software and softsynth sections)

have fun

[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: Muzman ]

[balistic]

I just wanted to touch on something that's been unsaid here . . . if you can't make a compelling composition with ghetto gear, you're not going to be able to do it with a posh studio suite either.

When you think of the classics of techno music . . . "No UFOs" in 85, "Energy Flash" in 91, "Strings of Life" in 87 . . . those aren't what studio engineers would consider well-produced tracks. But they are timeless because Juan, Joey, and Derrick were more worried about putting their lives into their music than they were about their levels clipping.

In my opinion, jumping straight into pro gear is like starting a course in 3D animation without first knowing how to draw. You might be able to pull off something that's technically interesting, but unless you've got a personal musical vocabulary to fall back on, you won't be speaking with your own voice . . . the tools will own you.

And even if you're more interested in the technical side of things, why concern yourself with what everyone else uses? If you decide to be tool-centric, try making music with unconventional tools . . . as an example, I've developed a method for "scratching" that uses two computers, an FM transmitter, and a radio with a tuner wheel.

Pick a direction and innovate. The last thing we need is more musical wallpaper.

Anyway, I don't think I ever posted it here, so:
http://www.bprince.com/bp_july.mp3

Tracked in an evening back in June, so its not particularly polished, but it does a pretty good job of echoing how I felt that day . . . which I think is what's important.

Just some thoughts from someone with no training, and no ambitions of musical success.

[ October 27, 2001: Message edited by: balistic ]

[wayfinder]

brian speaketh the truth.

it all depends on how serious you're going to get,...
but even if I wanted to release with majors at some point, i'd test out my talent and dedication with something free and simple, like buzz or Impulse Tracker before I go out and get a shitload of synths and hardware in the five-digit range. just a tip from someone who's been composing for a while

should i plug? nah, i shouldn't. if anyone is interested in hearing some of my stuff, they're probably going to find it

[burn0ut]

i hear some pro's use REASON and a Midi playah.

reason rocks btw

[Lunatique]

Well, one thing to remember is this:

You do not need any training or knowledge about music or recording equpment to make innovative, interesting music.

Ramones didn't know how to play their instruments, and they pretty much single-handedly started punk rock.

Many electronic guys can't tell the difference between a major scale or a minor one, let alone chords and time signature. Yet, many of them made jaw-dropping tunes. Some of them even started out using nothing but a cassette four track, a keyboard, and a drum machine. Hell, Frontline Assembly knows SQUAT about music theory when they started, and they are still fairly ignorant about music theory. Noticed there are no key changes in their music?(I'm talking in ANY of their line-up: FLA, Delerium..etc) Bigod 20 is no musical guru either, but I love their style of industrial music.

You have had years of piano lessons, high-tech hardware/software, and endless tips and lessons that could be found on the internet regarding music theory and operation of equipment and software. You are FAR more equipped to make music than your predecessors. Just do it, and the rest will follow.

[Skitz0.X]

Well, yes I agree with that as well.
Which is why I ask other's opinion on what programs would be good to use.

Thats good that you advise me to be "creative" and "innovative" with what I do with my music, but how can I do that if I don't even know where to start as far as composing goes?
I've played piano for 7 years, and have a pretty good ear for music as far as I'm concerned. I've mixed, and done minor composition with music on the computer, but not nearly enough to really know any of the technical elements which would give me the knowledge to really even be "innovative".

Everyone needs to start simple.
Thats what I'm trying to do, but I want to know what I can use to do that.
Say some guy used to do some scratch drawings on the ground as a caveman, and knew he had a pretty good idea for art.
Yet, he had fiddled with pencils before, and could do some normal drawings...but his true goal was to do texture art for games or something.
A very weak analogy, but thats sort of where I'm at.
I know my goal, I just need to know about the tools before I can work towards my goal.
We're all innovative, and it will come out in all our work, as it will with mine.
But thats hard to do without knowing what to use to express myself in the first place.

So, I appreciate your opinion, but believe me I'm not some half-ass wannabe trying to jump into the scene thinking if he uses what the "pros" use, then he'll automaticly be good.
I'm someone that is dedicating their life to this, their schooling, and their ambitions, and wants some advice on what I can use to take the next step.

[strata]

I'd imagine it would be pretty difficult to adlib on a computer though wouldn't it?

What I mean is, when I sit down with my bass guitar I usually start off with some loop or tune that I like playing and after a while just feck off and freak out on it, improvising the rest of the tune on the spot...

which I would think would be pretty hard to do when you're turning a knob? =)

I like what Victor Wooten said about music theory: Music is like a language, the more words you know, the better you can express yourself. In the same way that I would need to be able to read and write a language, I need to be able to read and write notes to understand how the language is built...

or something like that.. the guy is a swami anyways, but anyhoo... I know nothing squared about music theory and I can still improvise because I've played enough to have a very good idea about how what frets sound...

so yah... I forgot what the point of this post was, but two cents none the less... good luck man