[Seraphire]

Well, one answer to why you wouldn't just do it entirely on your own is time. I doubt it would be feasible to paint an entire comic on your own within a reasonable time. So having a penciller to do the layout, etc... would speed up the process.

How long did it take you to paint it that way? With your skill, I doubt it was that long.

And I don't really get the reasoning of not wanting to overshadow the pencillers work. If you can make the image better, go for it. Why should you have to hold yourself back, just so you don't hurt the pencillers feelings? Why should the lineart overshadow the coloring? Why can't the color and textures define the art?

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The Groove is in the Heart!

Seraphire
Michael Jon Birkhofer
Seraphire's Cafe/Digital Evolution

[Seraphire]

Poor Akolyte had his thread taken over.

In case you haven't checked. I posted on your coloring over at comiccolors.com.

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The Groove is in the Heart!

Seraphire
Michael Jon Birkhofer
Seraphire's Cafe/Digital Evolution

[AKIRA_x]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan:
man, those are some huge breasts, I think u might wanna tone them down a bit.

---

Not his doing..the comic has that big tits...and I LOVE THEM!!!!..they are sexy!

AKIRA


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Whos ya dady!!

[-HoodZ-]

nice thread....makes a good read....

hmm spooge in comics now that would be something....theres an artist out there that has a unique coloring style he does spawn covers...norwood or something....damn its slips my mind right now...all i know is that he hails from australia

[Chapel]

spooge: Just to comment and few things. I think that if you did want to go into the industry you should go the Alex Ross route and do everything on your own. Or find a penciler and work as a team like "Liquid!".

I don't see anything wrong with Craig's or Liquid!'s version of the pics. Both are valid I think it is just more of personal preference on which looks better.

Pencilers work on a 10x15 work space on the 11x17 bristol board. The grain is usually penciler preference. Each has a different texture and it effects the erasing. Most use smooth 2ply/3ply. Pencils most pros that I know usually use a 3h to sketch and a 2h to render (I might have that backwards cause I use a 4b to render). I know some inkers will have the pencils emailed to them and they get it printed out with the non-reproduce blue so they can ink directly on the page. I think kinko's has a hard stock paper that is close to bristol board.

If you are looking for comic recommendations.. Something along the lines as a production comic I was mentioning would be "The Red Star". I think you would actually like reading that book as well. By the way, when I mean "production" I mean there is not a specific penciler/inker/colorist.. they are panel artist and such.

[immi]

Spooge, Much like Joachim and Micke's pictures, I always get the feeling that your images have such a great storytelling aspect to them and would translate incredibly into graphic novels.

I think you should give it a go, perhaps solo at first. See how it goes, see whether you enjoy it, and post them up here for everyone to see.

[Rinaldo]

cool thread.

I like Spooge's better. I find it interesting to hear Chris' thoughts on this in terms or readability. and the idea of overpowering the lines. I have the original as a poster up above my comp and I would say that the colouring on it is a lot more overpowering than what spooge has done (although he's not finished)
the readability in spooge's version is very nice I have no trouble understanding it, whereas I have a lot of trouble with the poster on my wall (although I still love it )

I would love to see a spooge comic. be it over a penciler or solo.
the only reason I can see a joint effort being needed is for the look of it, or speed.
I don't see painting over something as overpowering it. I see going to town with lens flares and stuffing up the colours and materials as overpowering. It's all about the way you do it.

[CapnPyro]

hey thatd be an interesting look, a digital painted comic book... i wonder what pencillers style would suit that

[Chapel]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rinaldo:
I don't see painting over something as overpowering it. I see going to town with lens flares and stuffing up the colours and materials as overpowering. It's all about the way you do it.

---

If I was the penciler and I spent 2 hours trying to perfect the look of one little thing, because I think it looks cool.. I'd be a little upset if the colorists went in and painted over it. It goes back to the "what is the point" if it is just going to get painted over anyway. In that circumstance it becomes overpowering. Now if he and the penciler agree that it will happen then I see no problem. I think a majority of pencilers now a days draw because they want to be popular like Jim Lee or Todd McFarlane not so much for comics. Not very team oriented. So if you have someone coming in and overpowering your work and it looks better.... not many pencilers will go for that. Colorists like Liquid! and Laura DePuy add to the lineart, but they don't take away from it either.

[Rinaldo]

Chapel-
I don't really get the "what's the point" bit. I mean I understand what it's saying. but to me it's like what's the point in penciling something when it's gonna be inked. if the colourist goes over some important bit then that would come under "the way they do it" meaning just as you would consider and inker who decides that nose is a bit small and does a retouch, to be bad, you would think the same of a painter who does something similar. I'm not saying it's an easy thing to do, not that it's a better way of doing it. but why would you do the pencils? maybe because the penciler is going to be doing most of the same stuff they're doing now when it get's inked and then coloured. tell the story, compose it all etc. Do whatever it is that they do. it would be a different kind of drawing. just as now you really have to pencil a different way if it's going to go straight onto the colourist. or you would pencil differently if it's going to stay B+W as opposed to if it's going to be coloured. having seperate people would save a lot of time as opposed to going at it by yourself.

It would probably require a tighter team, not as easy to mix and match etc.
as for people going for the glory...yeah...well...if they don't want to make a good book at the cost of loosing the ego for a bit, they don't have to (heven forbid they get brought down the the level of a colourist, simply a lowly production tool ).

*sigh* I'm just arguing this for the sake of it really. I just feel that a lot of the way things are done now are more for habit than anything else. granted that's as good a reason as any. and I'd rather do the whole thing myself. but in theory the arguments againts someone painting over are pretty weak IMHO.

JM 2 (in the most part subjective) cents

[Seraphire]

Well put, Rinaldo.

That's exactly how I feel.

I don't see why the pencils can't be drawn to add to the final colored work, and not be the focus.

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The Groove is in the Heart!

Seraphire
Michael Jon Birkhofer
Seraphire's Cafe/[URL=http://www.ozn.com.au/affiliates/digitalevolution/[/URL]

[Chapel]

The inkers purpose is to add depth and clarity to the original lineart. Inkers don't usually change a feature unless they ask or they know the artist won't mind. At least anything substantial. The colorist's job is to add form to the lineart provided. Not to do away with it. The original pencil work still keeps its integrity.

I don't think the argument is weak. I think there really isn't anything to argue about. If you want to repaint the whole thing then draw it yourself or find someone willing to let the painter overshadow them. I know if I was Joe Madureira and Craig approached me with the idea of painting all of my pictures in this style I would probably say no. Mostly do to the part that it might be too good. Then that is all Joe will be recognized for. Then what if spooge wanted to do something else. Joe would get left hanging with stuff that is neat, but not his greatest. Kind of like "Dark Knight Returns" and Frank Miller.

spooge: Think you would want to do this panel to panel? You mentioned that you could tighten it up. I'd like to see the result.

[This message has been edited by Chapel (edited January 22, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Chapel (edited January 22, 2001).]

[-HoodZ-]

i agree with chapel on this one...spooge has a style to his own.....think alex ross, he draws and paints his own work....

http://www.alexrossart.com/

[Akolyte]

I think Craig is at a step above the artists here creative-wise and should explore his idea. Why conform to the industry? If I was a penciler, I would be thrilled to have him turning my original ideas into a workable painting.(Not that I'm worth half a crap compared to you guys) Why discourage the idea since it's such a new and refreshing pace from the mainstream coloring? I think it would help explore the story of the comic further and bring a new dynamic edge to the typical clean cut razor lines that SOMETIMES do not work. I think he has something here. Or, I am just completely wrong, which is probably right

Just my half of a shilling...

[Flinthawk]

At the least I think Craig should try a cover or two...the only reason I'd say not to would be because the cover might be a bit misleading when compared to the rest of the comic's insides.

Another thought I had is if people like McFarlane and the like are into insane penciling that tends to stand out from the efforts of the colorist and the inker...then what's stopping colorists from doing the same thing? I can see both sides to this idea...the penciler is putting down most of the basics like the character design, setting design, composition, etc. so perhaps he's entitled to a slightly larger portion of the pie, so to speak. On the other side I see that inkers and colorists play very large roles themselves so why shouldn't they get a shot at the limelight?

I guess this's why I really dig the way Mad! and Liquid! work because they both seem to be on the same level, they both share the same admiration from me and they do it without stepping on each other's toes which brings that whole teamwork idea into play.

Well, those are just a few of my thoughts after reading the latest comments. Discuss, discuss

-Flinthawk

[Chapel]

I'm not saying Craig shouldn't. I'm saying what Craig is actually doing is painting.. not coloring. So if he wants to continue he should just paint. Team up with micke and rule the world!

[donk]

ugh, my floor needs awashin now. bumbs,
i love you both...liquid....it a hybrid, a hybrid of you *sniff* and spooge. i mean, i've seen a mime talk, i've seen a sloth swim, i've seen the girls washroom, i've even seen two men make love, but let me say this, i havent seen nothing until this, may i say, and i quote, "dam bitc# that's stupid fly, let me pull up to that bumper and smack that monkey".

spooge..brother.

liquid!, color a comic like this. or i'll have to just sit here and not do anything and forget about how i wanted you to do it and never mention it again... ._. ...


[This message has been edited by donk (edited January 22, 2001).]

[S4Sb]

Hey Liquid!. I bought "Battle Chasers" today. Number 2 just been released in germany. But I looked very long for e.v.e.... I couldn't find it... is it still in progress? Can you tell me who is distributing it? Where can I find infos?

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Formerly known as El Caseron.
ICQ:26482363

[Liquid!]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Flinthawk:

I guess this's why I really dig the way Mad! and Liquid! work because they both seem to be on the same level, they both share the same admiration from me and they do it without stepping on each other's toes which brings that whole teamwork idea into play.

---

Joe and I usually talk quite a bit, and are lucky that we have quite a bit in common, so we are generally pretty much in sync. However, its also largely to Joe's credit that he lets us try stuff that is a bit different at times. I'm really glad to hear though when people seem to think that we gel with someone's art, that's generally the goal, while hopefully still trying to add a little somethn', somethn' on top of that

-c

[Rage-lion]

S4Sb-The E.V.E series was over a few months ago in the US. I hear there is to be a second series though.

[Liquid!]

quote:

---

Originally posted by S4Sb:
Hey Liquid!. I bought "Battle Chasers" today. Number 2 just been released in germany. But I looked very long for e.v.e.... I couldn't find it... is it still in progress? Can you tell me who is distributing it? Where can I find infos?

---

Sorry, meant to answer this one, but it slipped by. International versions for comics are a tricky matter. Usually it takes some time before (assuming that they are picked up by foreign publishers) that they make it to stores outside of the US.

This is mainly due to the fact, that most international publishers that sub-license the books from US creator demand that a full-arc of issues/storyline is available before they decide if they want to publish the material. So there is an inherent lag in the process.

E.V.E is a 6 issue min-series. All issues have been already published. The best thing i could recommend that you order the issues online from one of the US comic retailers. However, you could also get the from us shortly via www.storm-works.com, since we'll be selling a few select online.

There is currently also a Trade Paper Back for E.V.E being planned, however we haven't decided upon a 2nd series as of right now. We have some other ideas, and aren't sure which ones we'd rather be doing.

Hope that answers the questions a bit.

-c

PS: Donk - ...I'm frightend.


[This message has been edited by Liquid! (edited January 23, 2001).]

[Flinthawk]

Well, honestly Liquid!, the first few issues of Battlechasers were the first comics I've bought since, well, ever! I don't think I ever had any comics except those little mini books that came with the Super Friends action figures when I was a kid Don't ask me why I never read comics, guess I always enjoyed cartoons more and as a kid I wanted to color pictures, not just look at stuff that was already done. But yeah, a couple years ago a friend of mine showed me a couple copies of Battlechaser, the one with Knolan in that cool action pose on the cover in fact...issue 4, and I was hooked. The pencils and the colors were, IMHO, just above and beyond anything I'd seen in magazine racks at random stores. Ok, I'll stop rambling now. Anyway, just saying thanks for getting me into comics.

-Flinthawk

[This message has been edited by Flinthawk (edited January 24, 2001).]

[S4Sb]

Thanks.. that really did help!

/me sharing Flinthawk's words

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Formerly known as El Caseron.
ICQ:26482363

[S4Sb]

But...

quote:

---

Welcome to the future home of


This site will go live shortly.

Thank you for visiting and please come back soon.

---

You talked about the US comic retailers. Where to find them? ...Anyone?


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Formerly known as El Caseron.
ICQ:26482363

[AKIRA_x]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liquid!:

however we haven't decided upon a 2nd series as of right now. We have some other ideas, and aren't sure which ones we'd rather be doing.

---

YOU DO NOT THINK!!! YOU JUST DOOOO!!! Ofcourse you have to continue EVE universe..ya got us hooked now..give us our dope!!!! I wanna know more about the robot army...the "police"...and EVE!!

btw..just curious if you know..or if you know someone who knows:
Hands down the best drawings I have EVER seen in any comics is the BRASS series. If you havent read it..get it. The problem is...its always getting canceld. They had 3 issues of it out last year..make that the year before..99..and it stoped dead in it tracks. And I can assure you it wasent for lack of story or art..cause they both kicked ass. And they started the story all over again now a few months ago..but now..it seems its run dry..cause no new magazin has come out since before xmas. So..do you know whats going on with BRASS, heard any rumours???

Btw, for all of you comic fans out there, start collecting X-MEN Ultimate, its a fresh start on the X-MEN with new suits all all.

and I have just discoverd...THE AUTHORITY!! WOW!!.... it does on the otherhand bring back memories of Watchmen, so the concept isnt TOTALY original.

AKIRA


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Whos ya dady!!

[Liquid!]

FLINT- Thanks, that's about THE best thing anyone can tell me. It's really nice to hear when someone tells you that your work helped them to start looking at some comics. It's funny because I always felt that when we do books that have a chance at wider appeal ("Death of Superman", or a comic for the movie, or a comic included with a Happy meal), that we should get the best teams on those books to show people in general how far comics have come. Yet, generally the industry will but their worst guys on these sort of projects, and thus, the public thinks of coimcs as still looking the way the looked 30 years ago. Not necessarily a good thing in my book. So thanks for reading!

S4- Our site is almost done. We're very close.

-c

[synj]

you guys are absolutely nuts hehehe

yeah my eye kinda bounces around on spooge's but so what hehe why even question if the guy can get into comics. Of course he can.

If thats how the comic industry likes to work, then pencillers are cocksuckers and need to fart their oversized ego out of their system already and let some awesome stuff take place. hahah i really don't mean this harshly, just kinda blurbling around in a goo vat.

Don't get too offended by anything I say cuz I never really liked any comics. Chapel's series was cool but why the heck did he blow his head off? (the character, not the guy on the forum). I read about two magazines of that and lost them a week later eheh

I prefer MAD magazine.


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synj industries, inc.

[-HoodZ-]

damn MAD magazine...i havent picked up one of those since 1990...tell me sinj does mort drucker still draw there?

[donk]

can you give tutorials of how you color when you take your time? or is it a sort of thing where if you tell it, liquid will go outa business?

[Frost]

In my humble oppinion, I like Craig's version in that it hides a lot of the pencil flaws... and YES I am saying the Joe Mad is not perfect. Liquid's repaint is also very good in that it fills in greatly... pencils give form, the colors as they are in comics are only so because new and better methods have not been widely accepted yet... painting details and such and hiding pencil flaws is great if you ask me.