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Lunatique · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:41 am

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/07_jul/features/cw_macvspc2.htm

About damn time.

Asurfael · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:57 am

I don't see how that would put the argument to rest... Not all people really judge their computers just by benchmarks, you know? I wouldn't judge the computer just by that. And even if I did, where are the 3d benchmarks? And why is the mac the only computer with dual processors... Besides, it's been known that macs usually tend to win when photoshop is concerned, and pcs tend to win when web browsers/3d games are concerned. And you can't have windows on a mac or max os x on a pc, which can also make a difference (some distros of linux work on both, though). It's not that simple, you see? I don't really think either of them is better, both have their good and weak points. Zealots are just... amusing.

roundeye · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:35 am

i have a gay friend and he owns one of those new imacs. coincidence? i think not!

eyewoo · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 8:14 am

Don't usually get involved in the hardware wars, cause its all a neck'n'neck horse race, but I have to say I enjoyed reading the article's last line...

quote:
Even though the P4 machine has only a single processor, it was easy for it to leave the dual-processor Mac far behind.

[ July 30, 2002: Message edited by: eyewoo ]

lalPOOO · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 8:57 am

I don't know why a team doesn't just get at least 100 program/games that are fairly up to date and bench mark all of them using a dual processor p4 and a dual processor mac of the same speed (or very close)
Like it'd deffinitly take a long time, but considering the marketing potential its highly worth it.

(example) Mac is known to run not only the latest games and graphics applications, but is able to preform allidins lamp at 2 times the speed of a regular pc.

thats just an example, and by no (and I mean NO) means do I support the mac, because they are sucky.

Atherium · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:09 am

I agree, right now it is like comparing apples to oranges. I think that the only things holding back PC's from blowing MAC's away is the retail availability of dual P4 processor units.

Ko · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 12:22 pm

Why must I always say this...

I really can't help it!

I've always built dual processor systems for myself... I just couldn't live without.
In terms of raw power in Photoshop, you just
can't beat two processors. The brush engine
actually IS multi-threaded. And so are other
important features such as resizing canvas
and converting between profiles and colour
modes (RGB>CMYK)...

It is also great for your everyday workflow,
such as switching between multiple programs,
rendering in the background while painting
textures and so on... (requires Pro version of WinXP/2K to support 2 processors).

I have a dual G4 at work and a dual AthlonMP
at home, and the Mac is nice, but doesn't
really stand a chance against the power and
memory bandwidth of the dual Athlon system.

Just my real life experience...

But it really comes down to what you're
comfortable with and how heavy your wallet
is...

- Ko

Sharper-Image · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:32 pm

Ya know, I betcha that a HUGE determining factor in choosing between a PC and a MAC is something that not many people care to address: piracy.

I know a LOT of people (in the design community) that have chosen a PC over a MAC simply because they won't be able to come across the software they use frequently for the MAC platform. I know it isn't ethical, nor is it even logical in terms of performance, but money makes the world go round.

J Bradford · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:33 pm

Apple computers have always been about ease of use and easier to deal with problems for a novice user, I can't see why someone would want to make a comparision between a Mac and a PC. For artists, it is like debating over which 3d software is better - it all draws down the person, not the tool. Give it a rest, sheesh.

Snakebyte · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:40 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Tree Merchant:
Ya know, I betcha that a HUGE determining factor in choosing between a PC and a MAC is something that not many people care to address: piracy.

I know a LOT of people (in the design community) that have chosen a PC over a MAC simply because they won't be able to come across the software they use frequently for the MAC platform. I know it isn't ethical, nor is it even logical in terms of performance, but money makes the world go round.

As Tree (oak?) pointed out.. To hell with paying $4000 for the high end mac that MIGHT be faster in two or three apps than a PC that cost 1/3rd the price.
I dont hate macs, I love the Unix OS and the design of the computer as a whole and if it cost half as much I'd get one. And if they move to the x86-64 processor mac's may go places, so long as its not overpriced.

[ July 30, 2002: Message edited by: Snakebyte ]

JFreak · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:01 pm

Ever sinces I've used computers I've used Pc's, always Pc's, Pc this, Pc that. Pc's are everywhere. And I think that's why people like them. They are the computer standard. Don't get me wrong, PC's are great It's just that I've never used a Mac at all. It's frustrating because I hear that Macs are what 80% of artists use. But I've never had the chance to used one. (Sorry if I'm ranting

) but I'll be so happy when I start University and can actually try one for myself. It's times like these when I don't like living in a small town.

Sharper-Image · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 4:23 pm

I'm actually made of cedar, thankyouverymuch.

Lunatique · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:16 pm

Oops, did I start a flaming thread? Bad bad Luna! *spanks own butt*

burn0ut · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:49 pm

id just like to say that the 23" apple lcd display is one sexy beast... how i wish i could afford one @_@

balistic · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 11:14 pm

"I don't know why a team doesn't just get at least 100 program/games that are fairly up to date and bench mark all of them using a dual processor p4 and a dual processor mac of the same speed (or very close)"

That would require a Motorola processor that was actually close to the speed of a mid-range P4 or Athlon, and there aren't any.

Frog · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 11:14 pm

Laid to rest?

Why, you're just stoking the fire

Watch this thread go on for days and bore the shit out of us all...

Gort · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 11:40 pm

I think I am gonna sit this one out...popcorn time...anyone? anyone?

zak · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 1:27 am

any 23 inch lcd display is a sexy beast >__<

LostBoy · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 2:37 am

I think artists are drawn to macs because historically those were the computers used to do graphic design and what not.

Personally I've used macs and I find them very cumbersome and slow, but really it comes down to what you're used to. I also like the freedom PC's give me when I choose hardware and I honestly love tinkering. Mac people like to argue that PC's crash all the time. While that may be true with win98 it definitely isn't true with win2000/xp. I've kept my comp up and running for almost two weeks while I ran games, 3d software, and graphic software and never crashed.

I think too the PC's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness...the sheer number of options. All those variables can lead to incompatabilities. Whereas in the Mac everyone is the same and everything is safe.

I'm sure I just bored everyone to death, but oh well

Gort · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 6:01 am

quote:

I think too the PC's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness...the sheer number of options. All those variables can lead to incompatabilities. Whereas in the Mac everyone is the same and everything is safe.

I have to disagree with you, Lost Boy. There are standards that every vendor has to adhere to in order to effectively get their product to market. The main problem would be driver issues, but any vendor that is going up against the competition is going to do their best to ensure their drivers work correctly. Once again the consumer wins - review sites put the products to the test, and anyone that doesn't cut it for performance and stability stands out.

Another view for stability: WinXP requires an authorization signing for any piece of software and hardware - if it's not "signed", then the user is prompted and given the option to proceed at their own risk and not at the risk of the OS; the ball is in the user's court and to blame if things go amiss.

Damn...I jumped in...

LostBoy · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:25 am

quote

Quote:

There are standards that every vendor has to adhere to in order to effectively get their product to market. The main problem would be driver issues, but any vendor that is going up against the competition is going to do their best to ensure their drivers work correctly. Once again the consumer wins - review sites put the products to the test, and anyone that doesn't cut it for performance and stability stands out.

Well in a perfect world that would be correct, but there's always a problem here and there with incompatability, especially with games. And of course it mostly has to do with drivers, but in the world of Joe Computer having to install a driver is a scary process. Sometimes they don't even know there is such a thing.

Case in point I bought a new WD hard drive only to find out a little while later that it wasn't compatible with the exact mobo I had (KT7-RAID and even if you flashed the new bios). I eventually had to cut pin number one on the IDE cable to make it work.

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: LostBoy ]

Gort · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:46 am

quote

Quote:

...in the world of Joe Computer having to install a driver is a scary process. Sometimes they don't even know there is such a thing.

You're right, but most users - the Joe Blows if you will - are more inclined to buy a machine without ever considering the prospect of opening the case and swapping out parts - new mobo, hd, etc. So if they buy a preset machine, say from Dell, they will most likely end up having Dell make any recommended changes, and so on and so on. The same can be said about Apple; I know many Mac users that know nothing about the mechanics or quirks of their Mac and the relative OS; they'll most likely call up "Joe Technician" or take it in for a bench fee/review.

And so on and so on...
Ah Lunatique - you and your sticky little web!

colonel kurtz · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:40 am

I like donuts.

Gort · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 12:32 pm

Light, fluffy...
golden brown
perfect shape, ever so round,
glazed over with your velvet chocolate cover
below my toothy orifice you hover.

Anticipation
Delayed gratification
I can wait no longer

My mastication is deliberate
controlled
thrilled

Hey...I like donuts

AND I'm NOT gay!

roundeye · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:02 pm

donuts are gay.

colonel kurtz · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:03 pm

Must..... Look.... Away...... Can't ....... Post....
Awwwwww crap.

I've been a PC fan for a long time and having worked on and supported both I can say that PCs are just as easy to set up as Macs. A big selling point that a lot of Mac owners lean on is that they just take it out of the box and plug it in. Ummmmmmm yeah. I did the exact same thing when I helped my mom with her Dell. Oh but Macs are so stable? BS, Win XP is rock solid I have been running it since it came out and have never had it crash.

A Mac is like the early Porsches. They are really pretty on the outside, but under the hood they have the same enigine as the Volkswagen Bug.

Damn I got sucked in....

V Shane · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:16 pm

Well, whats really faster? The person who knows his OS'& programs inside-out, or the weilder of said systems constantly referencing from books and asking alot of message board questions. ehhhh, the efficiency is in the user, but it always helps to have speed like butter on a bald monkey

edraket · Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2002 12:36 am

If donuts were gay they wouldn't tear so easily.

Aber · Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2002 1:12 am

donuts and macs are on the same level of gayness

f3nce · Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2002 10:54 am

Apple makes good accessories.

Their mp3 player is apparently pretty cool, and that 22" LCD is swank.

Other than that, a Mac is just another PC. I don't understand why people are still trying to make the distinction, other than to feel a part of something that seems special (the G5 is going to rox0rz!) (man. my athlon is amazing because.. uh.. it's fast!).