[Pro]

Hi again-

I put this here given that access to other areas here on Sijun is impossible . But I guess in a way it may have something to do with Digital art. My question to each and everyone one of you is this: I hope I'm not breaking any rules or stepping on any toes, but I would like everyone's opinion. I have noticed many students here lacking the access to art schools or information on art for that matter. There is a need to gain information or feedback on one's art. Sometimes we search for new avenues to explore and gain inspiration and motivation to improve our abilities. If you could visit a membership site that supplied you with access to information and some direction in your art , what would you envision it to be like? Can a student actually learn to draw or paint via the internet and move upwards to a successful artistic career? Your thoughts are much appreciated. If I'm breaking any rules here let me know and I can remove this.

[ValarianROOT]

I believe a person can definitely learn about painting, drawing, color and such over the internet. I've finally grasped a lot of the concepts I was shown and told about in school HERE, not at school. Things like: hard vs. soft edges, warm and cool colors receding and pulling forward in a painting, and much more. I just think that a person needs to take each bit of advice they get and test it out. See if it works for them and always as questions. Just like anything on the internet you have to have your BS detector set to high whenever you get someone else�s opinion. So, a person needs to study for themselves outside of just a forum. Study paintings of old and new masters trying to use what they learn in a place like this to deconstruct a painting, to see how it has been masterfully pulled off. Just like you can't learn anatomy out of a book, but it can help you cue off what you see in real life.

So, a person with some talent and a keen eye can learn a lot over the 'net.

JN

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: ValarianROOT ]

[vigilo]

I't be great to get some professional instruction over the net. Glenn Vilpuu has a couple of free articles/tutorials whatever you wanna call them and they are quite helpful, at least to me.

If you are thinking of doing something like this Greg, i'd be interested in studying/practicing/picking apart anything you have to teach. I would pay for the personal advice/critique, but not just for the tutorials alone. I don�t really know what to expect out of something like this either (I�ve never been instructed aside from books), you would probably have a better idea.

I don't think you are out of line doing this... i think more pros should do the same.

The tutorials and lessons Fred and Spooge tried to do here were really helpful.

[jr]

it would definitly help because speaking from personal experience i've learned so much just from this forum. and i went to art school for 4 years.

[V Shane]

One of the advantages of Net learning is your not stuck with one teachers perspective or critiques, also you can get tips-personal emails from some of the biggest names in the industry. I even got one very well known Fantasy artist actually guiding me through an entire digital painting, jsut because I took the chance to ask, and he seen alot of potential in my sketch. And that kind of thing just keeps going, now when people write me to help (or on forums like this)your not bitter because your weren't ignored. Everyone here is albeit sometimnes sarcasrtic but Extremly knowlegdable and talented. Because also of thier help I dare to ask to improve. Teachers that I have had in the past almost discouraged constant questions "just paint, you'll get it".

anyway a little tangentfied but thats my perspective!

[Ian Jones]

ValarianROOT pretty much nailed it. That's similar to my opinion of it also. I have learnt so much here at the forum. I also visit other websites, but in terms of learning about drawing and painting, this place has helped me understand it.

I have learnt more about art here at the forum, than many years of crap art education in schools. Not that school art isn't good, but it certainly didn't suit me. It isn't as flexible and capable of self-learning. Self-learning is so much better in my opinion, so I think that over the net instruction could work as long as you understand the nature of the net itself. The fact that a student can motivate themselves and log on at whichever time they want. That is a system that would work for me. that is why a forum like this is so good.

Hope that helps.

[Little Beefucker]

When you ask about paying for an artistic service, I think "commercial", which is, yeah, a dirty word. ^_^ And here I am, checking my wallet thinking that even without tutorials, this kind of interaction is worth every cent. Sijun-style. Real people in a fake room.

And when you ask about learning, I think "principles", "application", but there is nothing more inspiring than the fresh work of an unprincipled artist. The way kids don't know that their wall scribbles can beat half the market, that's how much potential is online. Then you find a place like this and you see how many ways a wall can be used, and the inspiration goes seismic. That's education to me. ^_^

A forum like Sijun is better than ten schools. It's that worldwide network people blab about. It repositions artist(s) to look at the art, something most classrooms can't do. People become teaching tools. It doesn't matter if Alex Ross is Ben Templesmith is Joe the Dishwasher. You can only learn.

I dunno. It's all profound in my head.

[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: Little Bee ]

[gLitterbug]

Hi Greg a very good thread this is!

I�m 100% sure one can become a great artist when learning over the net only. If that is NOT true I�m fucked , I never got any art education and I most probably won�t ever go back to school. I went 4 and a half year to a technical college till I couldn�t bear it anymore and that oversatisfied my hunger for traditional type of schooling.
I now rather learn from books and over the net, that way I can get together what I need and actually WANT to learn. Not much force behind that, sure sometimes thats a big downside too, if lazyness comes through, but it also teaches me how to keep myself motivated for later in life.
I think I learned alot already from visiting (and most of the time only reading) forums like this one and I KNOW I�ll be a great artist some day.

The difference between a teacher in school and one that teaches over the net isn�t much I�d say, except that the net-teacher has maybe an even better relationship to his "students" caus things aren�t that forced.

Right now I�m trying to learn how to get my drawings look like the person I wanted to draw and have a very hard time with that. I�m not even posting my attempts anywhere caus they are just pathetic yet. But I�d greatly appreciate help and if I could get that help at a great membership site I would be ready to pay for it too. I don�t have much money, but if I could afford it and I would see that it helps me to get where I want I�d love to sign on to such site!

[Gort]

Ya Valarian! I couldn't agree more. I just wish I had a resource like this when I was back in school.

[Lunatique]

I've been working professionally since I was 18, and I'm now turning 30. In all of those years, I've learned some stuff, but man, this place was a relevation to me when I found it. There is so much great information here that you'd have to be a complete moron to not have picked up anything useful.

That's what's so awesome about sijun. You can be some 13 yr-old kid, or a seasoned professional, but you get just as much out of this place.

Just posting your WIP for critique has been an eye-opener for me. So many different people from so many different perspectives will come up with critiques you never could've gotten if you had just showed it to a coupld of friends/collegues.

And the community--man, is it awesome. You all have your own daily lives, and they could be drastically different, as we live in different parts of the world. But, we all converge here, and the diversity of various dispositions regarding everything is really refreshing--and that could only be beneficial to your artistic growth. I mean, where else you're going to have one guy who is working on Lord Of The Rings II post in the same thread as a thirteen yr-old kid, and carrying on a conversation that could range from art, to religion, to music, to video games?

[J Bradford]

As a current art student and a frequent internet surfer, I feel I can see both sides of the spectrum. Art schools are going to give you the formal learning process, which I *think* will be much faster (if you put the work in) to learning to draw as opposed to learning from the internet. Internet is still amazing, though, you can gain a lot of valuable information and tools from it. But for someone starting out, it doesn't give you much direction to push at. If you setup and enviroment on the internet where there is more of a formal direction - then that's different.

[Gimbal8]

With computers since you read and see things just as you would in a book, using the internet to learn is like learning from a book. But the interent has added advantages of being interactive. There are people to ask specific questions, and get answers from, to bounce ideas off of etc.

Almost everything in the classroom can be mimicked on the internet. Then there are places like Sijun here. The difference with this forum of course is that it isn't structured like a class. It is just an open forum for artist to meet and do whatever they want pretty much.

"If you could visit a membership site that supplied you with access to information and some direction in your art , what would you envision it to be like?"

I would envision it to be like Sijun, but with a stronger purpose, direction, and participation. People who want to become members would have a serious desire to become better at their craft, the staff there would be experienced in the trade and be able to take virtual students on to help them through whatever difficulties they are experiencing. Just like some of the threads that used to go on here, like the head drawing tutorial or the cube drawings etc.

"Can a student actually learn to draw or paint via the internet and move upwards to a successful artistic career?"

If someone had the desire to learn, and put forth the time and effort, they can do almost anything. The better the resources they have to learn from, the better they will learn.

Of course one important thing to consider: Classroom, internet, or just learning from books, none of it will help until you practice. That's the one thing that anyone who wants to get better cannot avoid no matter what method they try to learn with.