[MD-02-Geist]

Hey all... i need some advice from you. I'm aiming for a job what has to do with 3D modelling-animation. Now i am still at the beginning in both... drawing and modelling. I am not the worst at it, but neither the best... (in my home town there are only few ppl as good as me, but here in the forums i think i am one of the worst right now). I am 18 years old and as i said... later i want to work in graphics business. I practise several hours every day (instead of gaming or TV ), but i am not sure what i should concentrate for ... 3D modelling or 2D art... i have only a few hours a day to practise and i want to use them wisely (we have summer right now ...).

What do you guys think?

Thanx for every comment ... thats really important for me.

[Pringle]

What do you like the best?
You'll be better at 3d if you can draw.

[MD-02-Geist]

Generally i like 3D art more ... because u can animate it... but i dont want to miss a good foundation in my skills...

[Gryphon]

I would say aim for experience in the 2D realm first - if you can't do anatomy, for example, then animating a walk or anything else will be tougher. If you're going for the animation shtick, then definitely get as much gesture drawing experience as you can... after you do that for several months, (unless you already have) then go back to the animation.

[Briareos]

If you can draw some kick ass stuff, they will teach you the 3d. Knowing 3d techniques will help, but try to focus on skills like lighting, color, anatomy, etc. Because all these transfer over to the 3d medium. So basically, have fun with your 3d, but never stop drawing and painting! 2d2d2d2d2d! heh.. good luck.

[EviLToYLeT]

This is the wrong board again. MAke sure that you post this in discussion.....this clearly doesn't fall into finished work.

Well anyway, if you only have limited time, and are applying for a job as a 3d animator....i'd recommend you start off with 3d. It may be easier off that way. Truth is that most 3d modelers can't draw worth shit. They can just visualize well when they see something and spacialize etc. SO.. mm..... in this case I'd say laucnh right into 3d. Because, you'll pick stuff up like anatomy when doing 3d modeling and it'll applying to your 2d work.

[MeatyCheesyBoy]

I'm gonna have to agree with the eviltoylet on this one, this is the wrong forum.

But seriously, since the moderator's haven't moved it yet, I do actually agree with Eviltoylet. I find that they both kind of feed off of one another, the better I get at 3d, the better I draw, the better I draw, the better my modelling gets, etc., etc.

[Sumaleth]

(Moved to Discussion)

[Derek]

As others have mentioned... good drawing good drawing good drawing...
Thre's just no getting around the need for solid and basic skills. The best digital animators and painters are absolutely amazing in traditional animation, and there's no way of getting around that or cheating the look in your reel or book. It's all too rare that demo reels and portfolios come around that show the artist has a good knowledge of anatomy, perspective and lighting. You can be taught the digital apps much easier than you can be taught to draw. When in doubt, draw. A lot, and well...
Read, get to know the computer, etc. as you can of course, but at this stage, and at your age and skill level, you should be drawing more than all else.

[MD-02-Geist]

Thx alot ... i never expected to get that good suggestions. Thx. Generally i didnt make a decision so far, but u told me some things that are really influencing my decision... thx again.

And sorry that i posted it in Finished Work, but its some time ago i posted here ... so i was a bit unsure ...

[denizen]

I work in 3d and never EVER took a pencil in hand. Actually I can't draw even the most simple characters... and I miss this.
Nonetheless I found a decent work 8)

but don't see 3d as a whole discipline... you must split at least in two parts: animating and all the rest.

If you want to animate 3d, forget all 2d and start animating now!

If you want to do all the rest (modeling, texturing, lighting etc) you'd better do heavy 2d before.

this is as I see it ^__^

bye

denizen

[Gryphon]

Ah, but even the best animation requires a model... besides which, if you're going to try to get a job in the field, your chances are obviously better if you can animate AND create the scene. I've found that you can learn the software very quickly, if you know your way around a computer (I learned Maya in a month with a good teacher) but that the skills such as color theory, which definitely cross over if you're working with lighting and so forth, need years to really develop to a high level.

I would, at least, assume there is a reason that the most highly respected art colleges for animation have you take drawing and figure study courses before you ever touch a computer. Just a thought.

[MD-02-Geist]

Yeah thats a good point... but at the moment i have no teacher. I will start studying graphics in about 2 years when i finished school ... so long i work for myself, that i have a good foundation in 2D/3D.

[Derek]

Another reply...

You mentioned that you have no teacher right now, and that it will be a couple of years before you start studying graphics. In the meantime, I would tell you to draw and read as much as you can.

One of the things you can best be served by is reading all you can on drawing, and on perspective, anatomy and lighting, as well as looking at a number of sites and magazines for reference on the 3D aspects you like.

Not to repeat my earlier post... one of the best reasons for doing this may not necessarily be to develop your skills so much, for you really will need someone to rough you up a bit for that. This will familiarize you with the concepts and the vocabulary that are used. There exists literally a huge vocabulary for the fields that the different members of this forum work in, and being able to speak their language will let you ask better and more concise questions, and not be misled by answers. So read read read, but after you've put in a day of drawing drawing drawing or modelling etc etc...

Also, this will put you ahead of your classmates who, believe me there will be a ton of them, will be coming across some terms and concepts for the first time that you are already comforable with and perhaps have put to use.

For fun, here's a test that embarasses everyone I give it to... off the top of your head how many people can you name who are currently doing the work that you may want to do? Who are the best?

[ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: Derek Smith ]

[XandGash]

Ok, maybe you guys can help ME...

I want to create video games. More specifically, I want to be a designer, you know, the one who comes up with the story, character designs and battle system aspects. I've been working on a story for a few years now. I've got all of the necessary information needed for the beginning of the production process. The main story and plot details, character designs for heroes, villains and npc, plans for the battle system, including the learning curve, menus and icons. I'm good with math, and I'm determined to make something of quality. The problem is that even though I can draw, have made a level of my first story in RPG maker, and am good in math, I'm just graduating highschool, and I don't know of any place that would take me right now. I figure that I can increase my chances of beefing up a proposal if I do some work in 3d. What I want to know is, should I just make low-poly character models, or animate them as well? I just got 3d studio, and even though I've worked with it briefly before, I don't know how to do alot of things. Do you know where I can find an introductary(sp) tuturial, along with one on creating characters and animating them?

[MD-02-Geist]

In my school ... hmm let me thing, i think i am the only one who is really working with 3DSMAX. There are some more who draw, but they are more heading towards comic-drawing or body painting stuff.
So i think i am the only one in my whole school who is heading towards computer graphics...
we have tons of computer freaks, but they all do coding. Thats kinda sad, because i cant work together with someone that we could help each other.

I think thats the main reaseon why i am here in this forum ... there is nobody at my school/region who is doing the same as me. And when sb (what happens really rarely) is a bit interested in doing graphics, they are absolute newbies and just want to do some weapon models for Counterstrike... and ask me for advice.

[TylerHunter]

I am going to have to say, do yourself a big favor and draw draw draw, until your arm falls off. In my school there are a million bad 3D artists who lack drawing skillz, and the good ones have very strong drawing skillz. An eye for composition is key, and no life is really key . Remember this, if you cant draw it you probably cant 3D model it. Life Drawing is very help ful as well as anatomy. Look at lots of work by artists of many types. raph.com is good. Ive been drawing since I can remember, and it helps so much. So get some sketch books and draw.
Painting helps too, while you render forms from the edge on inwards in Drawing. In painting you build forms which is more like 3D modeling, also practice your sculpting skills.

Tyler.

[Tiger Eaten]

XandGash:

I read your post and would like to take a moment to caution you as to what you can expect once you start looking for a job.

You stated that you would like to be a designer. I can certainly understand why this would be, you get to use your own ideas, tell your own stories and see characters of your creation brought to life. Unfortunatly, that is exactly what every other Dick and Jane out there wants to do. You get to design when you have proved yourself out as being an asset to the company and this usually means slogging it out for a while, doing backgrounds, assigned (not your own) modeling and textures (AT BEST!).

I am not saying that you won't get there, but you have to always look at it from the companies point of view. Every single last applicant will show up and claim to have great ideas and blabber on about how creative they are. Ideas are cheap, great ideas are pretty common. It is the execution of those ideas which makes money and money at the end of the day is what counts. You say that you are great at math(2X), this is wonderful, but I fail to see how it has anything to do with character design.


Here is my advice: You want to pick a strength that you have and refine it, build on it until you are better that 99% of the other guys out there. If you like math then I would suggest you try your hand and programming. If you really think you ideas and character are hot, then you gotta be able to get them across, on paper or on the screen. This means praticing your drawing, your writing and seeing if you can get your modeling skills up to speed.

Practice COMMUNICATION -

Imagine a guy walks into an office at 20th Century Fox in 1973 and says:

" I've got this great idea for this movie, there's these good guys and a lot of bad guys. The good guys have these cool swords but they aren't swords really they are......ummm.....electric but not really electric (you know?) and anyways at the end of the movie they get into these ship thingys and have to attack this really big ship thingy (except it's round, right?) they fly down this road or ummmm trench and need to shoot bullets, um lazers, errr torpedos at this small spot and then the big ship / planet thingy explodes and they win.......Oh! and the bad guy is really the good guy's father. Cool eh? Bet you didn't expect that, eh? eh? So what do you think? Guys?.........Hello?"


Even the coolest of ideas need proper presentation. They never come across on their own, it takes time, work and teams. If you are really stuck design then you should be thinking "What is the #1 best medium / skill I can master in order to get this world to understand what I am thinking?"

Last Word: Don't spend lots of money on an animation school in the hopes that they will MAKE you a great artist /animator. They will take your money and they will help you to a degree but that is all. YOU GOTTA DO IT YOURSELF. Which is why it somewhat puzzles me to see posts with the question "Are there intro any tutorials about 3dsmax?" Do you mean BESIDES the 300+ quality tutorials that you can find with a 3 second search with Yahoo? Don't rely on other people too much for advice or help. They seldom will carry you all the way to the finish line, you gotta do that on your own. At the end of the day, you don't want to be reading the same tutorials as me, you want to be out there by yourself finding the REALLY juicy techniques and advice that will put you ahead of the crowd Good luck, you still have lots of time, this is a MOST precious gift.

[XandGash]

Yes, but you have to know how to do the basics before you can branch out. Though I am good in math, my main strength is drawing. Heck, if I could just do the concept art for a game, I'd be happy. The problem is the more I research positions, everyone is looking for 3D. I mean, I want to be the person who fully fleshes out a character before it is turned into 3D. I want Tetsuya Nomora's job.

[NukleoN]

Do BOTH!

Learning the program is one thing, but it doesn't make you an artist. This comes from your knowledge of basic skills such as composition, lighting, proportion and your own style..if you are a better 2D artist, this will shine through in your work.

Plus, you need to know 2D anyway if you plan to do texturing.

So keep the skills up and learn 3D if you want..it is a lot to learn at once, which is why you have to love it to be successful at it.