[Dude]

When dealing with anatomy, it seems as though having to memorize all the names is a bit much, however a somewhat overall knowledge is needed. Can someone (who is preferably quite comfortable with the human form and can draw it from memory) post their thoughts here concerning wether they know some of the muscle names or all of the names, or if you just concentrate purely on forms. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Frost]

Fred, Billy, Joe, Jim, Bob, ...

I don't know crap about anatomy, but yes, I would assume keen knowledge of the muscles would include you getting to know their names, or at least most of them. Knowing their names is probably not the important thing, but, some weird names will just stick to you...

[Derek]

Not only should you know the names, so that you can converse easily about the faults and strengths of your drawings, but you should also be able to 'see' and understand the origins and insertions of the muscles and their interedependent tendons.
These are somewhat related, for the fibers lie so closely together and at times it is easy to mistake one for another at first, and dense groups can be seen as a singular muscle, when it may be a few (teres major and minor come to mind). So, again when examining strengths and weaknesses in a drawing you can interpret how you've stretched, contracted or bunched a muscle together and understand how you may have misrepresented one or a group of them.
BTW, not talking about the deep tissue, but the major surface muscles, their attachment points, and bones that they reveal or are shaped by (which means knowing a majority of the skeleton too) as well.
A good book to refer is by Stephen Rogers Peck-Atlas of Human Anatomy for the Artist... won't show you how to draw them, but will help you 'draw what you know you see'.
Good luck.

[ May 25, 2001: Message edited by: Derek Smith ]

[Dude]

hey thanks for the reply Frost, yeah you're proably right I was just wondering if maybe I should just learn the muscles and like you say some of the names will just stick and I shouldn't really worry about focusing on memorizing the names. But if anyone else has any ideas on which muscles you should know feel free to comment.

[edit] Thanks Derek that makes total sense, I have burne hogarth's dynamic anatomy book along with the loomis figure drawing pdf file by the way so I have the info I was just wondering before I started what others thought, but It sounds like I should just know everything.

[ May 25, 2001: Message edited by: Dude ]

[edible snowman]

try checking out some medical references too. they help me a lot sometimes because they focus on where the muscles are so you konw whats going on underneath.

[Dude]

Thanks for the tip snowman but what I really want to know is if I should be memorizing every single muscle's name or just know some overall important ones and such, but I'll probably just do what Derek says unless someone says otherwise.

[ May 25, 2001: Message edited by: Dude ]

[Rinaldo]

hmmm. there is no doubt that you need to know them all. but for me, looking at one of those fat "anatomy" books was a complete waste of time at first. My advice is to look into it when you become interested in that sort of thing.
don't run away from it. but there's no point in sitting down and learning all the names and muscle groups if you don't really have an application for it.
this is just my experiance of course. go from the biggest things to the smallest. before you dive into one a medical dictonary, get to know some "figure drawing" books. the sort of broader knowledge in those will be of more use unless you know it all back to front and want more indepth information.
this may not be the best way to go about it, but it's the least boring IMHO

[koshime]

Well,
I'm a doctor and a freelance digital/concept artist.

In my opinion , a rough study of the human form, people around you, children and relative perspectives are more important.

Although the muscle forms help an anatomist or artist, there is no real need to memorize individual muscles or groups, much less the nerve fibres. If you're going to do that, do a medical related degree *grin*

For any artist however, I purely recommend you polish the daily study of the human form
skin texture and gait and posture. The musculature and bone structures come naturally with dedicated keen study of the human form.

Best Regards,
Koshime

[edible snowman]

if your artwork is cool, i dont care if you can tell me what the muscles are called. Ill bet that you could learn to draw just as well if you called the muscles things like "the one over there" and "that funny shaped one." but then again i dont know shit.

[Berus]

Knowing the names is not necessary for everyone. You simply need to know the location, size and shape of the muscles; where they attach to the skeleton; how the skin moves/folds/stretches when these muscles contract; how the body position is altered by these muscles.

However, when you study anatomy, even briefly, it might help you remember the individual muscles if you associate a name with them.

Basically, if you find yourself spending more time on trying to keep the names straight than on learning the muscle structure of the body, then forget the names. Concentrate on being able to picture each part of the musculature accurately in your mind, then layer skin (and fat) over it to create a realistic body when you draw.

My personal opinion: names are unimportant.

[NukleoN]

I'd recommend learning the muscles by where they are, and you will learn the names of the major ones as you go. You need to know a teres major from a teres minor I don't think, but you should know, in general, what muscles are which. Also, not all muscles show up (even tho I am guilty of drawing as many as I can). Just look at bodybuilders, anatomy illustrations, etc. See which muscles show up when developed, and which generally don't.

It is also good to know how muscles insert into the bones as well..how the delt splits the bicep and brachialis, stuff like that.

The other thing you can do is draw everything from menory, as I do, and when I get stuck I find a webpage with muscles and\or body builders on it.

Eventually you will memorize more and require less study, but always observe.

[edible snowman]

think about this to, everyone definately needs to now anatomy if they want to draw people, but how often do you see guys walk down the street with no shirt on? and then when you do, they're mostly hillbillies with beer guts and no muscle definition anyway, at least around here.

[zero21]

From reading the loomis bible, the comment was made within that to correctly draw clothing and how it hangs on the human form one must know what is holding it up underneath, so it hangs in such a way.

While loomis goes into great detail on the muscles themselves, obviously the "main" ones would only be needed to get the clothing, propotions, etc correct.

Having said that, to have a "good" or maybe a better word to use would be "complete" understanding, learning as much as possible could do no harm.

Learning the muscles by heart would seem to be a bit of a mission, but once you know it the need for ref material becomes obsolete.

Just a view,

as the previous post comments, body types (beer guts, fat butts) are in plentiful and vary from the "ideal" more, than they actually "conform" to it. So does knowing the muscles always help?

*zero21 just realises he has made two or three conflicting arguments with him self and is getting him self confused, he turns off the pc and walks away with a head-ache*

[MadSamoan]

Not only should you know your muscles, but you should know your bones and the origin and insertion points. It can take a huge investment of time, but to progress beyond being able to copy photoreference well and being able to draw a convincing human figure from your mind, you have to know it. It's what separates the men from the boys and once you have it licked, you'll recognize it ranging from the master painters, to comic book artists and even video game illustrators such as the Capcom guys. Do yourself a favor and pick up a book called 'Artistic Anatomy' by Paul Richer (translated by Robert Beverly Hale)

[Briareos]

All I can say is that saying "Can you enhance the left Deltoid?" sure beats "Can you enhance that muscle??" when trying to communicate.

"You know, THAT muscle"

[BlackPool]

It's like this, if you want to learn the muscles and bones and what they do, you have one of two choices; Look over the shoulders of medical personal as they flay cadavers like Michelangelo did, or you can learn much more about them from books. Now if you choose the book route then you will need to pick up on their names if for no other reason, then to know what the author is refering to because he or she will be talking about them by name. So I would say that it's not cruicial to know all those technical names, but it sure does help in the long run. It also helps even more if you know WHY a given muscle or bone is called what it is.

[Briareos]

Yes, such as Extensors and Flexors.

[edible snowman]

well if you're like me, you can just flex and point, then say "that one."

[ambient-whisper]

quote:

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Originally posted by edible snowman:
well if you're like me, you can just flex and point, then say "that one."

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actually..that would be "extend and point " and not flex and point... when you flex you bring hte body part towards yourself. but if you want to point to something you have to extend your limb in order to point .

knowing names/ terms surely helps.. but i dont think its necessary.