[Chapel]

ahh.. damn.. I thought most of us were serious about art. You mean if I wasn't serious I can hang out here, but if I really want to learn something I should go to school? I guess I misunderstood the purpose of the forum. Dang and all this time I thought I was learning things here.

Let me just say this. I think it is useless to ask the opinion of the entire forum. I believe that over half of the forum is composed of the members that we want to "weed out". Instead of contributing to the solution everyone seems to gets defensive and starts to bash other's opinions. Like I said before I want the forum back to normal just like the rest of the veteran members. (Thats right I said it.. veteran). I've atleast tried to justify my opinions. I don't see many valid arguments for any changes except for the addition of a moderator. I don't think splitting the forums like Dhabih has mentioned is going to help.

Take a pile of crap and cut it up 3 ways and what do you get? 3 piles of crap. I personally would prefer to try and put a strainer on one of the sections so what is left is all that nutty goodness. ok.. that was gross but I think I made my point.

[mannyp]

You know, adding an elite forum might be a good idea -- one that invites those who prove themselves to be normal, well-adjusted, INTELLIGENT, open-minded people that happen to be good at graphics.

I'm fairly new to this forum and I've learned a lot from it. But the only way an elite forum would work (in my humble opionion) is if those who aren't invited to the elite forum, be at least allowed to view the topics (but not allowed to post). One can still learn from watching.

Also, I think it would be nice if admin were to get some helping hands and police the forums for trouble-makers (you know who you are) and implement a 2 strike system (I don't believe in 3 strikes):

1st mistake -- you get a warning
2nd mistake -- your IP gets banned

Pure and simple. I think that would take 50% of the "noise" off of the forum. I mean, a lot of the stuff that gets posted here definitly belongs in "musings" (ie: Mac or PC B.S., Photoshop or Painter, Tablet, etc.) It's not hard to understand which topics belong to which forum.

Anyway, those are my 1.5 cents (Canadian exchange).


------------------
manny.peters
My Site

[Affected]

Actually, the idea isn't too bad at the core. I wouldn't have admission based on skill, though, rather general manners and devotion. There could be one forum where everyone has access, and an invitation-only forum. The public one would be a sort of proving grounds - if a person posts there for a certain amount of time and is civil and appears to be serious, they would be given admission to the other forum.

There are a couple of buts, though - first of all, the flow of new people to the board is pretty fast, so fairly judging who gets in and who doesn't might be quite a task. Then there's also the issue of passwords... if it's a password-protected forum, the PW is bound to lak out at some point.

EDIT: Hum, hur, it seems mannyp just pretty much suggested the same.
------------------
Affected

Democracy is a lie

http://affected.xs.mw

[This message has been edited by Affected (edited November 27, 2000).]

[above]

Chapel I see what your saying and what I think your asking for is a little too much. The forum is not a pile of crap it's more of an unorganized file cabinet, with no one looking over it. We need someone to organize it and weed out all the bad files. So splitting the forums up would organize it and make it much more easier for everyone. And then the active moderater would take out all the wacom crap and the ludicrous topics, and deal with the annoying, ignorant people. As for lack of talent that's none of these newbies faults but rather the experienced person for not even posting. I'm not saying all the experienced art people aren't posting, but I'm guessing with the holidays coming up they are extremely busy.

Don't give up on it now. We just need change.

[Chapel]

Finally, some people smell what the Rock is cookin.

above: The way I see it.. the forum is already split. Random Musings/ Digital Art. Its not being used correctly now then what is the point of adding another category? You are correct in that you would need a moderator to make it work. That is all we would need now to make this work without adding the other forums. This is Dhabih's baby and I could understand why he wouldn't be too willing to let someone else take care of it.

[above]

You're right Chapel it all depends on what Dhab wants to do. I would love to hear what he has to say.


The forums are split already Random Musings/Digital Art, but that is not enough. Imagine if all the Random Musings was in the Digital Art, hence it is arguably being used correctly. We need more organization, there are post being fed to everybody way too quickly. I can't keep up while trying to avoid all the crap I don't want to read (It's funny how most of that stuff seems to rise to the top *Im*). So if i just want to see art instead of rants I'll go to the digital art gallery or whatever it's called section, if i want to discuss art I'll go to the Art discussion section. But if any change is made for it to work, we need to have the more seasoned artist to continually post, and an active moderator.

[EDIT] - I should read over my post before posting. Doh

[This message has been edited by above (edited November 27, 2000).]

[webdeta]

Hello,
I have been Reading this Forum for sometime and If you would like i can set ya up a Forum on one of my Subdomains. Like http://powerhouse.webdetailing.com I will do it for Free.
The Forum is Not the Ubb but if you would like to take a look this is the one I just got done putting up. I plan to change the Colors and Put a logo up top make it look better
http://www.webdetailing.com/forum/UltraBoard.cgi

Also I Give out sub domains EX) http://yourname.webdetailing.com This gives CGI,Forum, and much more for free if you would like to Apply for one e-mail me at
[email protected]
all this is Free so if you would like to do it e-mail me
thanks
Webdetailing.

[Delucubus]

Ok, I am a newbie here, i will admit it. I have posted my pictures seriously looking for crits. And I have also given crits seriously based on my opinion on someone elses picture.

Chapel said << But as I see it now people critique just to critique whether they know what they are talking about now >>

I'm no where near as experienced as many people on this board so does this mean my OPINION(crit) on someone's picture is wrong because i'm basicaly learning. And does this mean i am one of those people that you want to "weed" out. I think there are many "newbies" here that may not be able to frequent the board as others but are just as serious as those who frequent it a lot.

I think the biggest and best solution would be for Dhabih to hire more moderators to erase messages and ban those people who are not "serious" about this board.

[Fruitbat]

An Elite forum need not be totally excusive. It could be a READ-ONLY forum unless you are registered. I don't post that much anyway, but do enjoy reading posts a lot.
www.lllama.com

[above]

Guys I do not see how an elite forum will help anyone but the elite.

Most of the knowledge I've gained on this forum has been from the "Art Gods" commenting or critiquing on pics of people at my level or below my level. That is what made this place so great the interaction between the 2 sides. I'm sorry to say I haven't learned to much in the threads of Spooge, Fred, micke and Joachim when they are posting there pics, those only added to the many ways I could praise artist. Sure they are very inspirational. But rather I learned from the comments and explanations they gave on the pictures of the people who aren't that good.

Ugh I feel like I'm campaigning

[Chapel]

Ok.. last statement before I go home.

Delucubus: It is kinda hard to explain myself. I feel there are members on here who don't take critisism very well and there are also those who give harsh critiques in order to make themselves sound better.

I don't mind all the members.. I just hate all the useless junk that gets posted.

I'm done with this argument. Today was an odd day for me so I've probably gotten too involved and changed the way certain members view me. If any thing I said seems offensive then I am sorry. I really only have the best of intentions for the forum.

[Solitaire]

well, is it that we newbies have to feel guilty now, only because some kiddies dunno how to behave?
I can assure you, that many of the newcomers have had serious intentions joining this forum...
And no place will be safe of abuses - complaining won't help (sorry, that's the way it is - I am myself moderator of a forum).

[Plop]

My point was that this 'elite' system is going to require full time maintenance and in a free environment like this one I don't think its possible. Simple means like I posted above is as deep as it will go without dying out due to people not having time to do their duties. I see you all eager to have a certain group to evaluate peoples work and allow them to enter the forbidden city of the 'elite' but you should first ask those who you want to evaluate if they want to do that or have and will have time.
I doubt anyone can learn enough to become a pro here at the forum, however it does help a lot and advice you take away is priceless. I find it hard to believe anyone here thinks that participating in this forum will replace art school. Nor is it a good plan to have.
And Rinaldo was right above; I personally left the local community college art program because all the critique they gave away was in the likes of �nice, keep it up�. However there are serious schools with serious teachers, you just have to look. That�s what brought me to this forum btw.
The point of this is to make very simple non-time-consuming rules and enforce them; if Dhab can�t do it alone it would only make sense to ask someone to help, someone who is interested in helping without going on power trips, but that�s another story.

P.S
Above is my personal worthless opinion, don't take this in any way as an attack on your opinion. Whatever it is you think I agree with you and I love you.

[GlueMan]

Hi,
I am probably as 'newbie' as you can get going by my registered date and # of posts. But I dont see it quite that way...like others I've been coming to the forum for months, unregistered, learning and developing my own work in preparation for when I think I have something that deserves to be posted, something that wont be pushed to the bottom and ignored, something that people wont shit on by saying enough effort wasn't put in.
I think alot of newbies, myself included, have been terrified of/ARE terrified of posting their art...its tantamount to someone pouring out their heart (if their art means something to them) and taking the risk of having others laugh in their face.
I agree that many newbies have been filling this place with usless crap...dont let them blow our chances. Its the old story of a few ruining it for the many.
I still have yet to post a pic, but when I do I hope it is treated with the respect I think it will deserve for the 'serious' effort I have made. I hope all newbies and all those out there who have yet to register are treated equally.
Talk of the veterans leaving to an elite forum scares me, if that happens we lose a huge amount of talent and minds who know their shit...minds who can help us develop.
For those of you who treat this forum like a playground...go play some where else. Let me rephrase that...'Fuck off'.

------------------

....."Here I am"....

[Binke]

Sheesh.
Is this forum going to turn over to a class-based forum?

which will be ruled by the so called "Gods" and those that does not obey the Gods, will be kicked out of the paradise?
and WHO is to decide, how good you are supposed to be to get in to this, OH, so exclusive megastar forum?
It is *so* ridicoulus.

I agree something has to be done,but this is not the way.
Although Affected had some good ideas.
The way I see it, a good way to solve it is to have more moderators. Other boards work fine this way. If someone posts a useless post, (ex wacom post) then the moderator can close it with a post "check the faq" or similar. Would be a hella job for the moderators but hey. It works on other forums. And they could also close flamewar threads quickly, so that they dont push down others posts.

Oh and btw
Glueman... right on!
That's the way to go, well said.


------------------
Art Dimensional

[This message has been edited by Binke (edited November 27, 2000).]

[nori]

I like the idea of an elite forum. I think there should be set Art Gods. They can write 10 commandments for us lowly peasants to fallow. And if one of us shit scum suckers fuck up, we should be beheaded. That means IP banned and uhm shizo packets them. Then, once we have our gods chosen, they should have cool sounding names.. like Frost, for example, could be GOD OF ALL THAT IS FROST LIKE.. and fred could be GOD OF ALL THAT FLICKITH STONE. Then, we could have a monthly orgy where the Gods get together and congratulate each other on being rules of the universe. Oh! and for fun they could come to the "Pond Scum: Not quite art" forum and kick some of us dirty, trashy peasants around. You know.. for kicks! OH! and if one of us peasants should piss off a god, then said god can go on a murderous rampage, deleting user accounts and threads all at random! All while we tremble in fear of that gods wrath! man.. this is gonna be so cool.

[Bubonic]

Bout that elite forum, it wouldn't work.. Some jerks that are being stupid now could just find someone elses semi good work, and say its theres, and their in too.. its sad things have even come to this... But i ain't gonna let some lonley ass punks who have nothing else better to do, ruin this once great forum.

This forum explodes with great ideas and is the epicenter for inspiration.. well for me at least.. And these lil jack asses, won't ruin that.. I won't let them, and everyone else who cares about this forum shouldn't either..

Amen...

[above]

hahahahahahahhahahahaha nori that was the funniest post ever!

Binke and Gluemen, well said.

The problem I have with moderaters is the ego trip that some have been known to go on. In my opinion anyone supporting the elite forum should not be a moderator if we were to choose one. We need an unbias, cool guy type moderator just like Dhab. And someone who is really active. Well I hope a decision is made soon. Maybe an elected moderator? I dunno. :/

[burn0ut]

how about taking down the register link for a month and have it only open at weeks at a time so not so many people roll in all at once?

[opticillusion]

. . .

Glueman...nice. That is exactly my fear as well sometimes. Sure, I think I posted about two posts that were made through countless hours of the night, when I was tired, thought it was in need of help, and got no response and it fell quickly on the front ladder. That right there told me I better be focusing more, work harder on my direction, or think about what will I gain from working so long. And it happens that those two posts were mere constructions from my boredom, and so I look to the other artists here for inspiration.

So, now I wait until I have something finished, or have something for which someone can comment on, or others that I can see my help might benefit them.

- - - Now....hopefully...a note to end this on - - -

The forum has its spam, as does many out there. Options are countless on what to do. No offence, but this post could certainly be classified as spam, because there is nothing related to art, just the improvement of the forum, which is still important and hence the replies.

I think what makes this such a problem, is that when we see spam, or a joking post, or the like, people keep replying, and replying to bash the spammer into the corner. THAT'S THE WRONG WAY OF DEALING WITH THEM.

An analogy: I posted an artwork totally not finished and in need of composition help, no one replied, and I figured that that kind of incompleteness is not something to be desired on this forum...so I stopped posted the really unfinished stuff...and wait until I have something more concrete and complete.

If the spammer has replies of opinion throwing and so on...that post will keep at the top, as will the others...and we'll all get mad, probably joining in in the brawl.

An idea: You don't like spam, don't reply...simple. Perhaps someone can kindly say that their post should be elsewhere, and they can kindly go away or the moderator will kick them out or something. (anything like that usually works). Now that I think about it, an 'elite' forum would definately be discrimination in my opinion. A request for membership stating why you want to use the forum I think is worth considering. Other than that, I think its the users who are spreading...or making the spam look more noticable because the attention that goes to them.

That's what I could come up with. As for me...dinner's awaiting...

[yoshi]

Elite forum and elite members that would select new members from public forum is a good idea. A forum where all posts are on topic and there's no bullshit talk about how fabulous someone is (u could use email for that if you really have the need and save someone trouble of reading it). Someone should try to organize it. You'll get a lot more valuable info that way regardless of being a beginner or a pro.

[faustgfx]

and a fact is, should this elite forum appear in a form or another, $900 says i'll be the first one to be excluded with 100% certainty and other certain names will follow. and after that, the process of choosing (in whatever way might be considered appropriate) begins. :>



------------------
sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387

[yoshi]

i wouldn't care much about being excluded. You would get more out of forum like that. Also, that could boots one's motivation.

[endrigan]

HAHAHAHAHAHAAH...nori very funny man

I kinda like the elite forum idea

[Dryfire]

Hmm, okay this is a very hard discussion. I don't think it would be right to seperate the boards bye how well known you are or by what someone elses standards are. I don't think that the forum should be split at all, but I believe that it is neccessary, not by skill though or popularity.

I really like what Dhabih is tryin to do with the Draw club.- Its a great idea. I think that the forum, in addition to Draw Club should have a monthly theme that shoudl be in another sub forum that also includes Draw Club.

I would also suggest that another sub catagory be made of "Original Artwork - Completed", where you post finished pieces, and yet another sub forum such as "Critiques and Comments" where you can post your work for crits and such.

I don't really see how this plan could be bad, I mean its pretty much equal to everyone. I think it would help seperate a lot of the nonesense that we get i nthe forums.

Well, keep it goin!

------------------
-=DryFire=-
'Reality is just a dream'
GoD Graphics

[faustgfx]

yoshi, yeah, could read through threads that are 65% shitty and uninteresting, content and art wise. naw. besides, motivation/such was not the point here. *cough*

amen to nori.

ah well. i'm content in the knowledge that whatever way it goes, i will always have the graphics designers at mediaclick to diss and put me and my work down:)




------------------
sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387

[Maruman]

but if its Invite only what about the ppl like me who have been lurking and LEARNING FORM ALL THE GRREAT ARTISTS ON THIS BOARD!!!

i dont really know anyone and i havent posted any of my art cause i feel i'm not good enuf to post.

so if you make an elite forum. i'd be stuck on the outside not knowing anyone and no way to learn more.

and i wanna thank all the great insperational artist here.


------------------
----PORN PHOTOSHOP AND 3DMAX----All you need for life-Digital CatGirl

[yoshi]

faustgfx, well, reading through %65 (i think it's more than that) shitty and uninteresting posts gets on my nerve (not that my post aren't shitty). It's a brain decay.

Maruman: You can learn in the same way reading the elite forum, only there will be more/better info there, you don't post your art so lack of membership is not going to affect you anyway. i don;t see what problem you have with that.

[Duckman2]

I happen to think an elite forum is a great idea, having a group of people that are really dedicated to more than just posting stupid shit. And if you are going to post stupid shit do it in the random musings forum that is what that forum is for. Or you can just leave and never come back. I don't think the L33T forum should serve to exclude those that don't have the mad skills of Flickstone or Spooge but to harbor the many young artists in training to a solid foundation.

[Chapel]

Ok can I ask you guys to atleast quit calling the idea an elite forum. It was a bad word. The goal would be to eventually have everyone in one forum, but one of the forums would just be a proving ground. Anyways, I'll admit that it was probably a bad suggestion it sounded good at the moment. However, I still think another moderator would be good. I think it would be best if nobody knew who the moderator was. The person should use a different login.